Dragon Warriors

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 10:48 am 
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I think it takes a lot of concentration to cast a spell. Not being a magic user personally I'm not sure but I would like to believe that it should be easy to break your concentration. So if someone throws a javelin or dagger against you, that along would probably disrupt your concentration. Still, that would penalize sorcerors really badly, especially when someone can throw a javelin back right after eating yours.

Well, would any of the sorcerors like to comment about eating javelins and retaliation?

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 11:41 am 
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According to the rules, spells take effect at the same time as any other action a character makes, so it follows that it should be no more difficult or prone to distraction than any other action (shoot a crossbow, drink a potion etc).

So it looks like it doesn't take much concentration or time to cast a spell, which seems odd. I now picture these sorcerers blurting out "expelliamus!" etc real quick.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 3:12 pm 
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My D&D alarm went off when I saw this post and was used by D&D as a mechanic both to balance spellcasters and to add tension to combat (the party see a spellcaster start fumbling in a pouch of spell components - could they land an attack in time to disrupt what could be a devastating artillery spell?) It's not really applicable to DW's more visceral (and far less clinical) feel to magic. Plus, DW is less concerned with artificial notions of balance - sorcery is, by nature, deadly and formidable, and not easily vexed. For example, a DW Sorcerer probably doesn't chant neat little formulae like his D&D wizardly counterpart, but hisses vitriolic syllables through teeth clenched in the effort of channeling surging chaos into his chosen effect, taking but an instant to erupt from the sorcerer in a magnificent and deadly display of power. There's no interrupting that...

Whilst I agree that the mechanics of DW don't really support that view (although nor do they counter it), to be able to interrupt a spell and have it fizzle ineffectually just doesn't 'feel' very Dragon Warriorsy to me. Sorcerers should be dangerous and difficult to counter, and feared because of it - no-one would dare throw a javelin at one in case they became the sorcerer's next target... :o

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 4:52 pm 
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During my latest gaming session, the party's knight ran straight to the enemy sorcerer and started grappling, eventually grabbing around his neck and started crushing his windpipe.

Although the sorcerer had enough time to cast Disease on the knight, he was unable to cast spells afterwards.

I believe that kind of action is quite a reasonable compromise, doesn't require modifying the rules or feel of DW, and in fact I encourage non-spellcasters to act in these ways in my games so that their classes feel awesome too (vs spellcasters and assassins who get new stuff at every rank, warrior classes are a little drab in comparison so we make up for it by allowing them more flexibility in combat)


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 1:07 pm 
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There was this thing at the back of my mind. What if you were to blow a loud whistle when they cast it? Or throw a bucket of water over them?

Should be a way to nudge a sorcerer into a bog, if you had higher reflexes, surely you can do things to redirect an indirect attack spell for example.

I recall my copy of ADn'D where they had these elements, like hand gestures and audio for spell casting. Guess dragwars don't go into that much detail. I did prefer the magic point system to Dn'd's memorization and constant resting gameplay.

Well, if someone was about to throw a javelin, and you, with a higher reflexes flung one at him, I'd suppose even if you didn't kill him you'd do something to his. Maybe a penalty -4 to ATTACK to his javelin throw .. maybe a similar reduction to speed on his indirect magic attack, and an -4 MAGICAL ATTACK to his direct magical attack....

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:44 am 
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Kharille wrote:
There was this thing at the back of my mind. What if you were to blow a loud whistle when they cast it? Or throw a bucket of water over them?

Should be a way to nudge a sorcerer into a bog, if you had higher reflexes, surely you can do things to redirect an indirect attack spell for example.

I think pushing a sorcerer off a cliff or in a bog would just mean that they didn't have a target when they came to cast their spell (just as if the high reflexes character dived behind cover), so this is already covered by the rules (not that there are rules for push-back or grappling, but I'm going to skip over that ;)). Also, think about how DW resolves combat - everyone takes a turn - character A with high reflexes throws a bucket of cold water over the sorcerer. The sorcerer, recovering from the initial shock of the bucket of water, then starts casting his spell - it's not like DnD where the sorcerer starts casting the spell from the beginning of the round but only takes effect at his turn in combat.

Kharille wrote:
I recall my copy of ADn'D where they had these elements, like hand gestures and audio for spell casting. Guess dragwars don't go into that much detail. I did prefer the magic point system to Dn'd's memorization and constant resting gameplay.

I agree that magic points work better than memorisation for Dragon Warriors, but then we're comparing apples with Tuesdays - DnD is a very different beast when it comes to magic and the rules designed to balance(!) it are very different from those of other systems.

Kharille wrote:
Well, if someone was about to throw a javelin, and you, with a higher reflexes flung one at him, I'd suppose even if you didn't kill him you'd do something to his. Maybe a penalty -4 to ATTACK to his javelin throw .. maybe a similar reduction to speed on his indirect magic attack, and an -4 MAGICAL ATTACK to his direct magical attack....

GURPS has a rule where if you take damage in the round, your next action is penalised by as much damage as you took (for example 2 Health damage equates to -2 to your next action). Again, for me, though, it just complicates combat further - an aspect of the game that already consumes a lot of table time.

I'm getting the sense that you want to balance the impact sorcerers have within your DW game, and i'd be interested to understand why you'd want to do that. Sorcery in DW is deliberately powerful and unbalanced, to be the fearsome, inspiring and intimidating force it is. Sorcerers are not some common adventuring mendicant, but dangerous and unpredictable folks that are rightly given a wide berth. The common folk of Legend won't know the difference between sorcery, fey trickery, and devilish influence, meaning that sorcerers will be unlikely to secure so-operation or a friendly reception wherever they go. The power of the sorcerer can often work against them, so it would be a wise sorcerer that hides their true natures, only risking revealing their full majesty when intimidation or survival is the only option.

I liked that in the Knight's Tale, some additional social context was provided for the sorcerer, which I have adopted in my own campaign - if you are not sworn to the service of a baron (and therefore under his protection), you are effectively an outlaw (and a devil-worshipping one at that), and so whilst sorcerers should feel free to blast spells around with abandon in the privacy of underworlds, amongst the distrustful eyes of gossiping peasants, sorcerers would be wise to keep a low profile.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:24 pm 
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Hm.. just thoughts of way of the tiger and other things in my mind. The situation where avenger throws a sha ken at the magic user...

Not running a game but I love talking about drag wars. Need to find time to read the books.. I buy them but I just put them in my hard drive and externally back everything up every few months. Trying to read Lone Wolf book 21-28 during office hours these days...

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:50 am 
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It seems to me that a good way of visualizing DW spells (other than the comic in the rulebook) is the fight between Gandalf and Saruman in the Fellowship of the Ring movie. They seem to take turns battering each other with magic, with neither taking a break until Gandalf is finally overwhelmed.


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