Dragon Warriors

Hello all.

I'm curious if anyone has ever looked at or even tried switching the core mechanic (roll under, with lower being better) to a "The Price is Right" mechanic (roll under, with higher being better). As a novice with DW, this seems like it would work fine. However, I'd like to know if anyone more experienced with the system sees any problems that might come up with using this approach.

Welcome,

I can't see any fundamental reason it wouldn't work as long as people are comfortable doing the closer calculations needed. It's easier to know that a 1 or a 2 or a 3 is a good success on a roll where you know the success number was likely to be somewhere between 10 and 13, than it is to know that a roll of a 11 was a good success because you'd need to know the actual success number. I generally have a feel for when a success is a very good one with low numbers and I think it allows for more 'drama' in the game. We only bother doing the calculations when they are close enough for doubt and I'd worry this might slow down the most dramatic moments.

For example, let's say I know that the characters ATTACK is around 18 and the defenders DEFENCE is around 3 but I don't know the precise numbers.

"Roll to see if you hit."

*1*

"You jab your sword forward with great precision catching your opponent right in the throat."


versus

"Roll to see if you hit."

*14*

"What is your ATTACK?"

"19"

"OK" check DEFENCE on paper - DEFENCE is 5. Exactly on. "You jab your sword forward with great precision catching your opponent right in the throat."

If you run a game where people are already calculating the numbers, I can't see any reason against it. But I think I like everybody watching knowing that that *1* or *2* on d20 was a great success when it was really needed.

_________________
Life and Death Are Only a Dice Roll Away!

Shaun Hately
co-author A Weak Pleasure
co-author Friends or Foes
co-author Dragon Warriors Players Guide

That's good insight - thanks!

One reason that I like the "roll under, but higher is better" approach is that I really like how it handles contested rolls. In an arm wrestling contest, for instance, instead of each player having to determine their margin of success, they simply say "I succeeded with a 12" or the like and the high roll (that's successful, of course) wins.

This approach can also be nice in conjunction with a chart that ties successful rolls to the level of success one has with a given task. For instance, if one succeeds on a roll with a 3 or 4 it could be considered a sloppy job, perhaps earning a disdainful comment, while a successful roll of a 16 or 17 would earn a great deal of praise. Again, this could be done with a "lower is better" mechanic, but it requires a player to do a bit of math and then report "I beat it by 7" or the like.

It's important to note that I'm approaching this from the position of a novice. While I've owned the DW books for a long time and pull the core book out a few times a year to peruse it, I've never actually played the game. Only recently, with a realization that the DW ruleset might be very well suited for a campaign concept that I'm really excited about, have I been giving serious thought to actually running a game.

While I'm sure that every campaign is different, I wonder if I'm over-estimating the value of the "higher is better" mechanic in DW. After all, things like Perception vs. Stealth only require a roll by one party. So here's a question: how often do contested rolls and margins of success come up in your DW games?

Then hopefully you'll like the wrestling mechanic I put in The Hollow Men adventure:

http://cobwebbedforest.co.uk/library/Do ... lowMen.pdf


For Attack vs. Defence, Stealth vs. Perception, etc., there's a difference between the attacking number and the defensive number, providing a simple way to resolve the conflict with a single roll, but that's not the case when comparing primary ability scores.

I actually normally resolve the difference with a d6+ability score. The problem you have with the d20 mechanic is that a person with a Strength of 3 could out-arm-wrestle someone with a Strength of 18 - this bizarre occurrence can't happen with the d6 mechanic (although why your GM is making you roll, rather than just resolve in the narrative is just as bizarre...).

And, if you're wondering, if two people with the same score share in a task, they add +2 to the d6, if two people with different scores attempt something, they only add +1 to the d6 (but use the higher of two scores).

You can read my full system here:

http://cobwebbedforest.co.uk/library/skills.php

Comments welcome.

_________________
Cobwebbed Dragon (Lee)

https://www.cobwebbedforest.co.uk/
https://www.dragonwarriors.uk/
https://twitter.com/CobwebbedDragon
Now on YouTube!

Although the specific dice mechanic is a matter of debate, I definitely think degrees of success should be a part of the rules in Dragon Warriors. An example of where this would be meaningful and greatly add to the game is for very mighty characters. As the rules stand, a master Knight with Attack 26 versus a peasant with Defence 5 who rolls a 5 on an attack has succeeded exactly as much as an untrained peasant against the same enemy who rolls the same way. In my opinion, succeeding by a lot should have more effect than barely making the roll.

Cheers,

-Kyle

I prefer to resolve this in the narrative - a good roll should equal a good result, and what constitutes a 'good roll' can be difficult to define.

The very successful Basic Roleplaying System (on which systems like Runequest and Elric are based) has a chart for critical successes, special successes, successes, failures and fumbles, with different values depending on the base skill. It could easily be adapted to DW (as demonstrated by the attached PDF - purely as an example, and not to be taken as a literal translation of this mechanic!) This can put a lot of pressure on a GM to determine what a special or critical success looks like for each possible action the character might perform, so I tend to err away from this approach myself.

_________________
Cobwebbed Dragon (Lee)

https://www.cobwebbedforest.co.uk/
https://www.dragonwarriors.uk/
https://twitter.com/CobwebbedDragon
Now on YouTube!

I'll check it out. Thanks!


As a referee, I often like to leave some room for chance to take a game in unexpected directions. Perhaps the gal with the 18 Strength had a sneezing fit at the moment the contest started, or saw her long lost brother walk in the door of the tavern, or had her patron deity humble her for some previous slight!

Having said that, if one wanted to allow for those kinds of events but reduce their frequency, a 2d10 roll could be substituted for the d20 roll.

Thanks for sharing that. Definitely good food for thought.

I think that kind of approach would work well outside of combat, when the number of rolls is fairly minimal. In combat, when the dice are flying, I agree that it would place a heavier burden on the referee and would very likely slow the game (and right at a moment when pacing is critical!).

In my old school D&D games, I use critical hit tables and fumble tables adapted from DCC RPG to add flavor to combat. Those have worked really well for our group over the last couple of years.

I was thinking about this topic and was thinking of starting a new thread. I think dragwars is simple, and it can be ... simplified further. If we just fix a few simple rules, like a reflexes 18 guy can somehow climb glass surfaces, a looks 13+ individual is automatically considered attractive and gets at least a minimal positive response.

In the same way, this should allow you to automatically resolve some situations. Forget the roll, just resolve so that higher strength guys win arm wrestles, if they are at least 3 points higher. Only time you consider rolls is if they are more closely matched.

Bit like looks 18 chick vs looks 16 chick, as opposed to looks 14 chick vs looks 7 chick.

_________________
Speech!





And so the show begins!!!
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dwp ... ssages/640