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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:14 am 
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Somehow I think this is missing. I think we have it in book 6 law which is very appropriate but shouldn't we go into greater depth about greasing transactionsin the day and age? Somehow I'm thinking about JH Brennan's book 3 where you could bribe monsters to leave you alone. Bearing in mind a party might do a lot of travelling into strange places, shouldn't we have more in the way of 'the law' or tax rules? Maybe a tax guide might be appropriate?

I realize its not quite 21st century but even in this century bribery and corruption is a very common feature. Shouldn't the new looks based character be good at getting around all these extra fees? Surely the medieval 'service sector' was more developed that what we have on paper?

Would such a system also require background on exchange rates? Say if I took a Elleslandic gold crown into Chaubrette, would the Chaubretians give me a really poor exchange rate if it had King Hadric printed on it?

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Last edited by Kharille on Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:36 am 
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Kharille wrote:
Would such a system also require background on exchange rates? Say if I took a Elleslandic gold crown into Chaubrette, would the Chaubretians give me a really poor exchange rate if it had King Hadric printed on it?


This isn't finished yet, but is part of an article I am putting together for my DW website. It's entirely unofficial, of course.

In the standard, Dragon Warriors game, money is described in fairly simple terms – you have the Copper Penny, the Silver Florin, and the Gold Crown, with each coin being worth ten times the previous coin. This article seeks to expand our knowledge of the currencies of the Lands of Legend to try and create a system that works within the game, but also allows for a little more variation.

We start with the assumption that the coins described in Dragon Warriors are in fact the coins of Albion, where the early scenarios are set. To this we will add an assumption that while Albion may have its own coinage system, it may be very similar to other systems throughout a particular area of Legend. The presence of the Church gives a rationale for this – the Lands of the True Faith, particularly the lands that were once under the control of the Selentine Empire all have a similar system of currency – so similar that for most purposes, coins from within this area are considered interchangeable – a merchant in Ongus will accept a silver floret from Chaubrette as equivalent to an Albish florin, and the same is true of the Kurlish Gulden. When transactions involve large numbers of coins (greater than 1000) things may change slightly – perhaps the Albish ship dealer will require 11,000 florets to guarantee he’s getting his 10,00 florins worth, but for small routine transactions, this is unnecessary.

The Right to Mint In Gold


In the Lands of the True Faith, the Right to Mint in Gold, is held to be a traditional right of Kings. It is a matter of Church law that only those legitimate Monarchs who hold the rank and title of King and Emperor, by Divine Right, may legitimately order the minting of gold coins. This reflects the belief of the Church that Monarchy is the most legitimate form of government because Kings are Kings by the Grace of God. Politically, it is also a useful tool for the Pontiff, adding to the real power that the threat of excommunication may have over a King who is in conflict with the Church. Too serious a conflict could put his national economy at risk, which encourages his senior nobles and other people of influence to try and keep him in check.

It also imposes a useful uniformity on the gold coins of the lands of the True Faith which is the reason why traders in Albion will accept gold coins from as far away as Asmulia and vice versa. All golden coins that are certified by the Church can be assumed to be of similar size, weight and purity.

Every Mint that exercises the royal prerogative to Mint in Gold has a number of Priests, lead by an official known as the Clerical Auror (holding equivalent ecclesiastical rank to a Bishop) who are assigned to test and certify that gold coins minted meet the standards set by the Church.

These standards are:

Width – a golden coins diameter should be ‘one finger width at the point the finger joins the hand’ wide. The official ‘reference’ finger for this purpose is a holy relic stored at the Great Basilica in Selentium and is about 20mm wide in our modern measurement system. This makes it approximately equivalent in width to a modern British penny, an American nickel, an Australian $2 coin, a New Zealand 10c coin, or a €0.10 coin. It is quite a small coin.
Purity – the coin must be at least eleven twelfths gold – in modern terms, 22 carat gold.

The assaying priests will test at least one of every thousand coins, and periodically will assess all the coins in a particular batch. Clerical Aurors and their staff are generally held to be incorruptible, and for the most part this does seem to be true – all men are fallible, but the Church is very careful in who is appointed to this role.

Coins certified are stamped with a key shaped device that bears the words DEUNX DEO (‘Eleven Twelths By God’ by God) and this marks the ‘true measure’ of the value of the coin. The coins may have any other symbols or device on them, as long as the Key is visible. Often the Key impression is the most finely etched and highest workmanship part of the coin – those who manufacture these presses in Selentium are among the finest metal workers in the world.

Counterfeiting gold coins is generally held to be an act of treason against the King who has their coins counterfeited, worthy of the most severe penalties, but it is also considered a serious act of Heresy by the Church, for which the penalty can be death by burning if tried by an ecclesiastical court. There is also a widespread belief (not confirmed nor denied by the Church) that there may be some… Godly or magical means, by which the purity of a Key Stamped coin can be determined.

Silver and Copper

The right to mint silver and copper coins is less heavily policed, at least by the Church – Kings may set their own laws on this within their Kingdoms. In most of the Lands of the True Faith, Silver coins are of similar size and weight to each other, and at least in small numbers will be accepted in other Kingdoms. The standard is a silver coin about 29mm (in modern measurements in width), making it larger than the gold coins. This makes it roughly equivalent in size to the British £2 coin, Australian 20c, or American 50c (no close equivalents exist in either NZ coinage nor Euro coins). There are no strict rules on purity but if a country debased its currency too much, it would imperil its coins being accepted elsewhere at any price. These are the most common coins for everyday adventurers to be dealing with – gold coins tend to be reserved for large scale trading purposes, and copper coins are more likely to be used within cities for small scale transactions, or as the only form of money preserved by the peasantry.

Copper coins are completely unregulated in any realistic sense – in some Kingdoms, there are some controls over their minting, but any town of any size may have a copper mint, and any Noble has the right to mint copper coinage as well. In Ferromaine, famously, any free man has the right to mint in copper – it is considered more efficient to allow people to make the coins themselves, which are mere tokens whose value is pegged to being worth one percent of a gold coin. If people can make money making these coins, it is considered a fair price for providing a useful service. Not everywhere is that lax, but it makes copper coins very variable – about the only thing they have in common is that they tend to be about the same diameter – about 24mm in modern terms, or roughly the same size as a British 10p, Australian 10c, American quarter, a New Zealand 50c or €0.50.

We will begin by looking at the currency of Albion. Because of the similarities I have mentioned above (which, I stress, are simply decisions taken for my own version of Legend, and are not official), using one nation as a model for many others is useful.

Albion

We have three standard coins – The Gold Crown.

The Gold Crown is the cornerstone of the Albish currency system – the only coin that has a guaranteed value (as is true throughout the Lands of the True Faith). It conforms to the norms mentioned above.

One one side, it contains a (rather crude) carving of the head of the King at the time of minting, accompanied by his name and the word REX. On the other is an image of the Crown of St Edred, the traditional crown of Albion, as well as the Key Stamp certifying the coins in the name of the Church.

Albish Crowns are most unusual for the fact that they are not actually minted in Albion. For reasons that have not been explained, the King prefers to have his Crowns minted just over the border in Cornumbria. Many people speculate on the reasons for this, but they are unknown – one recent theory is that he fears conflict with the Pontiff (perhaps over the Crusades) and having the coins minted elsewhere protects their value in the event of his excommunication, but that is pure speculation.

The Silver Florins of Albion are minted both at the Royal Mint near Ongus, and across the border in Cornumbria. They contain the King’s head and name on one side, and a stylised rose on the other. They conform to the norms mentioned earlier.

Copper Pennies are generally minted at either of the mints mentioned, but a few senior Nobles (most notably the Earl Montombre) and a few of the larger Free Towns are entitled to mint their own. Coins from the Royal Mints bear the King’s Head and name on one side, and a cross shaped device on the other, as do coins minted within the Free Towns. Coins minted by a Lord most often contain the King’s name, but a few (including Montombre) have taken to including their own name and head instead.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:28 am 
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This isn't finished yet, but is part of an article I am putting together for my DW website. It's entirely unofficial, of course.


That was a good piece Dreadnought. I wrote an article for the ill-fated Ordo Draconis number 3 which which attempted to address some of the same points as you present in your summary, although I didn't reach the all the same conclusions.

Alas I can't find my final submitted copy anywhere now. I suppose I should ask Steven Dove if he still has a copy; I hesitated asking about it for a long time in the hope that OD would one day rise from the ashes, but it is clear that that will never happen so I suppose it makes sense now to publish the article in another forum. Perhaps this one!

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-Kyle


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:21 am 
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Excellent text. Even if you can't recall all the details, it certainly gets you in the mood. Now that I think of it, the law rules in book 6 really did talk about on the spot fines and palm greasing. Perhaps the rules on the knave can be expanded with the use of non oil based lubricants in mind... or water based lubricants...

Maybe in times of war everything goes up since tangible goods are more important than money. Maybe we can justify some rules or even guidelines based on bartering. I suppose a player that walks into a smithy with a lot of blood stained swords, or orc hardware might be able to get something out of it.


I think all the prices can be entered into an excel file. Its a very simple matter to apply a few columns and raise prices by 60% or more and have the excel auto calculate it.


And under what circumstances might other items be valuable? In times of war or scarcity? Actually, maybe I can create another topic on economics and market forces some other time... or rename this topic....

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:27 pm 
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I couldn't find this last night - the Crown, Florin, and Penny of Albion, alongside modern, real world, coins for size comparison. The penny is a Montombre penny, but the size is pretty much the same regardless of the minting.


Attachments:
CoinComparisons.png
CoinComparisons.png [ 428.32 KiB | Viewed 4629 times ]

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:01 pm 
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I never really felt comfortable with the metric system in Dragon Warriors. I know it makes the maths really simple for the kids at which the game was targeted, but it always felt a little too D&D... That said, in medieval British coinage, there are 10 florins to a pound (not a crown, though, which is only worth 2.5 florins, but I'm prepared to let that go ;)) so maybe I'm being too harsh.

Continuing to compare Albion to England, you could expect all manner of coins in circulation, such as the penny, groat (4 pennies or 'fruppence'), tanner (6 pennies) shilling (12 pennies), florin (2 shillings), crown (5 shillings), angel (10 shillings), mark (13 shillings and 4 pennies), pound (20 shillings), guinea (21 shillings), and there are probably more, although they're not all contemporaries of the Dragon Warriors age. For example, tanners, crowns, angels and guineas are probably too recent (15th century-ish and onwards), but I think we've all played fast-and-loose with historical accuracy in our Dragon Warriors games, so they'd be forgivable if they turned up in a Dragon Warriors campaign.

I really enjoyed Shaun's take on the Church controlling the value of currencies across its area of influence, thereby making the coins interchangeable, and whilst I think it is reasonable that Cornumbria, Albion and Thuland would accept the others' currencies, I feel it misses out on the potential role-playing opportunity to be had as characters return home from a far-flung adventure and attempt to spend their foreign gold...

As for Ereworn and Glissom, I doubt they mint their own currency any more, although there might be some old Erewornian coins still in circulation that may command more than their intrinsic value to a collector.

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