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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:41 am 
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In the original book 1 there was a small section on formations and placement. I wonder whether this could be expanded upon? I'm sure it would be intuitive to all experienced players but would it be possible to expand upon this? We have some coverage of space needed to use spears and two handed weapons.

How about chandeliers to swing upon? Maybe some simple guidelines on wading through a waist deep marsh or cover rules for archery? As it is, even Bloodsword has more detailed combat rules and maps.

Would it be simpler to increase EVASION for being in cover? That DRAGONBREATH spell sure won't work so well if you're peering around a wall.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:51 am 
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Kharille wrote:
Would it be simpler to increase EVASION for being in cover? That DRAGONBREATH spell sure won't work so well if you're peering around a wall.

For some reason, I've not put these onto the Cobwebbed Forest yet, but here's how I handle cover in my games:

Cover

There will be times when the character is partially obscured by a low wall or just peering around a corner when required to make an Evasion test. In these circumstances, if the character is able to (and prepared to) hide his whole body behind the object that is already partially obscuring him and the object is capable of withstanding the full force of the attack, he gains a bonus to his Evasion test of between +1 and +4, at the GM’s discretion, depending on how much of the character’s body is currently exposed. As a general rule, for each 20% of the character’s body in cover at the time of needing to make an Evasion test, the character gains a +1 bonus.

Example
An archer shooting from behind an embrasure in a castle might have almost total cover and be at +4 to any Evasion tests, but an archer on the battlements may be slightly more exposed, gaining only a +2 or +3 to Evasion.

Similarly, an explorer poking one eye round a corner may have a +4 to his Evasion score in the event that he has to whip is head out of the way of a gout of flame that spears towards him, but a sorcerer looking to launch a spell down a corridor will probably need to be more exposed, gaining only a +1 or +2 to Evasion.

Shields as cover
Using a shield as cover from an incoming attack increases a character’s evasion by +1. Shield cover bonuses are not cumulative with other cover bonuses. Note that if the incoming attack exceeds the shield’s damage threshold it will be damaged, just as it would be in melee combat. At the GM’s discretion, powerful damaging effects (such as powerful spells, for example) may entirely destroy the shield.

[And if you're wondering what a shield's damage threshold is, it's basically the most damage a shield can absorb in a single attack and not be damaged.]

Thoughts or comments welcome.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:40 am 
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Its a good start. But so far you've mentioned EVASION. I figure when people are shooting crossbow bolts and arrows there should be a significant penalty so that only those legendary types with a high ATTACK and maybe some special archer 'skills of the mighty' should be able to hit people behind arrow slits. That would be a form of 'blindfighting' for archers who have to guess the location of the enemy archer behind arrow slits.

But I think cover should be more significant, especially if a player says he only wants to stick his head out or even just a momentary glance.

it’s a historic fact that infantry formations kept enemy armies at bay, the selentium subdued barbarian tribes and couldn't fight so well in forests. I would like to get more representation on this. I would also like to introduce elements, simple to create, simple to implement for cavalry.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:18 am 
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Kharille wrote:
Its a good start. But so far you've mentioned EVASION. I figure when people are shooting crossbow bolts and arrows there should be a significant penalty so that only those legendary types with a high ATTACK and maybe some special archer 'skills of the mighty' should be able to hit people behind arrow slits. That would be a form of 'blindfighting' for archers who have to guess the location of the enemy archer behind arrow slits.

But I think cover should be more significant, especially if a player says he only wants to stick his head out or even just a momentary glance.

it’s a historic fact that infantry formations kept enemy armies at bay, the selentium subdued barbarian tribes and couldn't fight so well in forests. I would like to get more representation on this. I would also like to introduce elements, simple to create, simple to implement for cavalry.

My rules for shields just add a +2 Defence score to the wielder for any attack where they could come into play (i.e., up to 3 attacks per round on the front or side facing the shield). Maximum cover (i.e., just a teensie bit poking out) has a maximum Defence bonus of +8. Alternatively, just create a hit location chart (Warhammer has a good one you can steal) and if the body part is in cover, then it misses, otherwise it's a hit. An appropriate skills of mighty could adjust the hit location by +/- 10% (or 20%, whatever suits your campaign). But I prefer the simple +2 to +8 Defence, based on the amount covered - I try to keep combats fast-paced so that combat does not take up a disproportionate amount of game time, for which reducing the number of dice to roll is key. Typically, characters are not going to be firing into embrasures, but being fired at from them - even though it is possible to hit an archer through an embrasure, it would be suicide for a character out in the open to do so as they'd never get enough hits in before they themselves were peppered with arrows.

As for mass combat rules to cover infantry formations and terrain, etc., I'm not sure the DW mechanics scale effectively. Individual characters hiding behind individual trees are fine, but rules to cover units of men and the impact of formations and terrain are possibly more appropriate to another rule system. If mass combat became relevant in my games, I'd let the mass combat happen around them and pick out certain personal encounters the PCs could enjoy to help shape the outcome of the battle (for example, espying a commander, making their way to him, and killing him to turn the tide; or rallying to their own commander who is being harassed by enemy skirmishers; or spotting a war machine that must be destroyed before its devastating artillery can be brought to bear on the battle). I did once run a 'Defend the Village' scenario in which the characters had to earn the trust of the villagers, convince them to prepare for attack, and then drill the peasants and prepare fortifications, etc. In that, the two forces each had stats as if they were a character (Att/Def/HP, etc.). The characters then had actions they could take that could provide temporary bonuses (or penalties) to the Att/Def of the forces involved. Once HP reduced to 0, the force would route (so a well-trained, disciplined force would have a higher HP per man than a less-disciplined force - plus actions to restore morale would restore HP, etc.). It's an idea that worked well for the scenario, but would need some fleshing out, I think, before it became a generic ruleset applicable to all mass combats - but you get the idea.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:32 pm 
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Not exactly mass combat. The rules are already there but I'd like to see more coverage. Like how 3 people walking up a 3m corridor with spears can all attack a guy wielding a two handed sword. I think its a tactic that could be used in dragwars and doesn't really exist in other systems. Also I think Cavalry are quite powerful in the open but the rules aren't there to resolve it, like the brief clash of a charging rider. Should be some basic momentum rules and not the very unique interpretationin book 6 of the rules.

8 to defence, a good reflection of the fighting in blindness rule. Maybe an archer should have a 'hidden target' / 'blind shooting' halved penalty as a skill of the mighty.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:13 pm 
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Kharille wrote:
Not exactly mass combat. The rules are already there but I'd like to see more coverage. Like how 3 people walking up a 3m corridor with spears can all attack a guy wielding a two handed sword.

Are you thinking of a little guide that would show what squares a weapon could threaten and how much free space would be required around the character to wield effectively? It could make an interesting chapter in an "Advanced Combat Guide" (or something similar), but would require quite a bit of research and would probably just turn combats into an even bigger time-sink during play. I've tried to take combat in a different direction to speed up combat (http://cobwebbedforest.co.uk/library/Do ... stract.pdf).

Kharille wrote:
Also I think Cavalry are quite powerful in the open but the rules aren't there to resolve it, like the brief clash of a charging rider.

I put together some draft mounted combat rules for my players (http://cobwebbedforest.co.uk/library/Do ... Mounts.pdf). They were never actually used, in the end, so they've not yet been playtested, but you're welcome to adapt them for your own vision of mounted combat. Because they were never used, I haven't run them through various scenarios of one-to-one, many-to-one, mounted-to-ground, trained-vs-untrained, etc., which would need to happen before they could be used in anger. If you have ideas for additional/optional manoeuvres/mechanics, let me know, as I think additional mounted options would make the knight a more attractive profession to play.

Does anyone know of an RPG that does mounted combat well? I might take a look at how Pendragon manages it, as that's always a good source of knightly stuff :).

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:13 am 
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Good reading up on the cavalry rules here. I liked the palladium fantasy 1 ed rules which had some compact yet varied skills relating to damage and attack bonuses whilst mounted. I thought it was a pretty good system compared to the other systems I've read

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:40 am 
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It looks like you have an acute interest in the tactical side of DW combat Kharille. Why don't you put together a rules expansion yourself on the subject (incorporating not just figurines but also the terrain, cover etc stuff you've talked about in other threads). I for one would love to put it to the test and I'm sure others on the forum would too. I'm happy to provide the MS Word document template I created for the Archer expansion if that helps you get started.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:56 pm 
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Heh, I think I need to revisit the terrain rules I had before. I figure, its time consuming to prepare but I made it to be easy to use. Things like cover and concealment that makes combat more interesting. I keep thinking about historic battles like teutoberg forest and how well equipped selentine soldiers can't face barbarians in their native terrain. Ambushing, concealment, breaking up formations.

I suppose the rules don't go into that much detail, but I figure assassins and barbarians can really use waist deep marshes, forests and all. Just some basic guidelines, like how easy it is to find something to throw in a stream as opposed to being in the middle of a forest.

Let me revisit that. I'll see what I can put together in the next week or so.

Oh, just retrieved the excel and attached it. I'll see about modifying this, looks like I haven't updated it since 2012...


Attachments:
Dragwars terrain v0.30 - 121013.xls [28 KiB]
Downloaded 332 times

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:30 am 
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At the moment nobody is going to use the rules as they stand (Excel format, difficult to read etc) but if they were put into something more palatable, who knows?

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