Dragon Warriors

I thought I might put up some polls to try and generate some discussion.

For this one, the intent is to see if there are any of the core Dragon Warriors professions that other players/GMs regard as unfinished or in need of further work and development in comparison to the others. You might think they all need work - and it's fine to say that and to say why, but I am really most interested personally in those that seem less developed or less finished in comparison to the others.

I'll give my answer to that question further in the thread.

(Once the Dragon Warriors Players Guide is out - and I honestly really do expect that to be soon, we can put up a poll for the three new professions as well - I'm not sure if this poll can be edited or not)

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Life and Death Are Only a Dice Roll Away!

Shaun Hately
co-author A Weak Pleasure
co-author Friends or Foes
co-author Dragon Warriors Players Guide

I have personally voted for the Elementalist. In my own games, the Elementalist is treated as a 'primitive' form of the Sorcerer - the same basic ideas of magical theory but from an earlier stage of development. I'm just going to share here something I wrote on the Dragwars group about a month ago, to lay that out:

I consider Elementalists to be a ‘primitive’ form of Sorcerer that still holds sway in some more isolated areas, largely because of ties to the religion of particular areas. They are the Druids and the Shamans of the old Gods – although not exclusively. I have a group of Elementalists devoted to the True Faith (or at least a version of it) operating in south west Albion, along and in Cornumbria. There are Elementalists in other places, but most of them are people who’ve travelled from the core areas.

Sorcerers, on the other hand, follow a tradition with roots going back much more than one thousand years but nobody seems sure exactly when it started. It tends to be associated in the minds of ‘modern’ people with origins in the early Empires (the Kaikahuran especially, although some link it places even further afield such as Khitai.) It is known to scholars that Sorcery exists in a recognisable form as far away as Khitai. In Albion, nearly all Sorcerers learn their craft from a series of books written just over 1000 years ago either in Emphidor or at least near Emphidor – these have been translated into diverse languages, but a great deal of them is written in Arcane – a language with a unique symmetrical script – all ‘letters’ are mirror imaged. Lower level parts of the texts tend to be written more in a ‘colloquial’ language with only some arcane for the most important pieces – higher level parts are written more and more in arcane, with ever more complex grammar (Arcane can be written right to left just as easily as left to right – important for left handed sorcerers who don’t want to wind up covered in ink - many of the oldest texts are written in a boustrephedon many). The arcane language is the reason why Sorcerers can make scrolls – something generally denied to other users of magic (there are rumours that occasional scrolls have been formulated for Elementalists and Warlocks using the arcane script – but it would take an exceptional understanding of the principles to do that – and most sorcerers don’t have that understanding – they simply learn their craft by rote. This is the way it has always been done. This is how it will be learned. That’s one reason why the canon of spells is so fixed – because people learn the same spells. I view it as similar to how many medieval physicians relied on the texts of old writers like Galen, rather than learn new things. The canon does differ a bit as you travel but in a given region, most sorcerers learn the same spells.

Warlocks grew out of the Selentine Empire. The Sorcerous Priests of the God of War, developed a secondary canon of spells with specific utility for soldiers and which relied more on shouted phrases which avoided complex gestures difficult for those in armour. There were occasional specialised units of Warlocks, but more often they were used as specialists within the legions. As the Selentines spread their magic spread. Today, outside of the New Selentine Empire some warlocks train as sorcerers do – learning as an apprentice from a master – but there are a few orders of Knights that have absorbed the traditions of the legions – the Knights Capellar are one of these (not all Knights are warlocks, but a reasonable number are). Within the New Selentine Empire, academies still operate that train warlocks for their army – and that’s a major reason the Empire, though greatly diminished from its peak – still survives.

Mystics… are an odd bunch. They are people who learn their form of magic without particular formal training (although some do manage to find a more experienced Mystic to help them, and there are also some communities). A lot of Mystics come from the poorer classes, simply because it’s the only path to magic available to many. If a person has a great deal of potential and no other avenue, eventually it may appear. For this reason, their talent is seen as more natural than the other forms of magic, and is seen as closer to the world of the fay. In certain parts of Albion, it is seen as evidence of Elven blood or elven influence as an infant. How true this is is unknown.

That lays out the basic positions of the various types of spellcasters in my own games.

I like the idea of the Elementalist as an earlier form of sorcery, but I don't like the implication of that as making them less powerful. I don't think primitive needs to equate to weaker in real life, especially when we are not talking about a technology but something at least pseudo-spiritual (which I think the Elementalist is), but with its very limited spell scope, the Elementalist does seem undeveloped to me. And also too coherent. In my own games, I have a reasonable reason (in my view) as to why Sorcerer's magic is so fixed within certain traditions with little experimentation, and little in the way of new ideas spreading - but I don't think that would apply as much in the Elementalist tradition. Not as much is written down, and I think the Elementalist might still be seen as closer to the core of their power with a more instinctive understanding of it - Sorcerers have managed to pin down multiple sources of power for their magic, but the average Sorcerer has no more idea of how that works than most people using an iPad understand how it works (on this analogy, I'd see Elementalists as something like the computer hobbyists of the 1970s and 1980s - what they can do is less powerful, but they have a lot more control over it and understanding of its core).

How could this be developed? I'd like to see more Elementalist spells and more geographic variation in them. There should be some of this even for Sorcerers - but I'd expect a Sorcerer from Ferromaine to have most of their spells, if not all, in common with one from Albion - whereas a fire elementalist from the mountains of Hudristania might have only a few spells in common with a fire Elementalist of Glissom - but if those two met, they could easily share their spells in a few days, whereas the Albish and Ferromainian Sorcerers a lot more effort to exchange ideas, it would require much more formal work and study - and there'd be a lot more arguing involved

_________________
Life and Death Are Only a Dice Roll Away!

Shaun Hately
co-author A Weak Pleasure
co-author Friends or Foes
co-author Dragon Warriors Players Guide

Nerf the Assassin, but give them more skills to choose from. Haven't read the new rules closely, but I think they should have blind fighting and arrow cutting just like Way of the tiger. However you can give them less skills and make them choose which path or skills they want.

Nerf the Warlocks, and a profession like this sure can do with A WHOLE LOT OF FLUFF since there is very little stuff that I can associate with this profession and our medieval age.

The Elementalist could do with more fluff. Maybe work on the fluff first, and then come up with the spells. All I see are a collection of super heroe abilities that seem to depart from the atmosphere. Perhaps go into detail about each element, traits associated with these elements, favoured terrain...

Also a skill to create healing apples just feels like something from a kids fairy tale. Maybe a variation of TANGLEROOTS would be better. Too many skills that felt irrelevant and doesn't quite fit....

I'm irritated that tracking became a generic skill. Also I don't like it how every later profession has comic book style abilities. Starting to feel like 2nd edition palladium fantasy....

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Speech!





And so the show begins!!!
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dwp ... ssages/640

Um.... I spy three new professions excluding a fourth profession that isn't in the list!

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Show me the mythic legends, mighty heroes and mysterious faerie creatures!

...and I reckon this will be a very interesting discussion once the Players Book is published!

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Show me the mythic legends, mighty heroes and mysterious faerie creatures!

I notice the Demonologist missing from the above list (although I guess a lot of people just consider demonology as just a variant of sorcery rather than a full-blown profession), but 3 new professions? Are they in the Players' Book? I guess I'll need to clear a weekend or two when it comes out to update the Character Generator...

And for people that have missed (or forgotten) the original thread in the Yahoo Forum, from which I think this Forum post follows, you can check it out here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dra ... ages/12394

The Yahoo interface isn't great for following a thread, but I think the 'Next Post in Topic' link beneath the message should see you through to the end!

To summarise my own opinion, none of the professions really fully capture the low-fantasy, pseudo-Dark Age atmosphere that sets Dragon Warriors apart, so all could do with a bit of a tweak in that direction. Consider the noble's 'Face Down' ability in Conan:


Sounds like an appropriate Skills of the Mighty for Sorcerers to me...

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Cobwebbed Dragon (Lee)

https://www.cobwebbedforest.co.uk/
https://www.dragonwarriors.uk/
https://twitter.com/CobwebbedDragon
Now on YouTube!

Yes, I consider the Demonologist to be a variant Sorcerer and I put the list together, so it shows my biases

There are three new professions in the Players Guide - the Knave, the Priest, and the Hunter.

_________________
Life and Death Are Only a Dice Roll Away!

Shaun Hately
co-author A Weak Pleasure
co-author Friends or Foes
co-author Dragon Warriors Players Guide

There are also the two Ordo Draconis professions: the Friar and the Thane (although I admit these aren't original professions...). Has anyone played either of these in a campaign?

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Cobwebbed Dragon (Lee)

https://www.cobwebbedforest.co.uk/
https://www.dragonwarriors.uk/
https://twitter.com/CobwebbedDragon
Now on YouTube!

All the professions could use a little more context and variation, but two stand out.

Barbarians need more variety. It would be nice to see the ability to "fork" the profession (a little like sorcerers fork to demonologists) to reflect the differences between barbarians from different backgrounds. Khanate barbarians would be expert archers and horsemen, while those from mungoda would be jungle survivalists and trappers (or whatever).

Elementalists need a major shot in the arm. Firstly, they should have more broad ranging skills and capabilities, like the other magic-using professions. Second, their magic should be more distinctive, not just essentially a feebler (if uneven) variation of the sorcerer. In my own house rules, for instance, the effectiveness of the elementalist is directly related to the availability of their element when they cast aspell.

Cheers,

-Kyle

The issue I have with comic book skills is that there will be many npc characters. I think its boring if lower rank npcs start messing around with numerous special abilities. Maybe if you come up against the occasional specialist but having every junior npc coming up with crazy abilities is troublesome.

Yeah, I think the Barbarian profession could be expanded on. I think some form of barbarian warrior code and background would be nice. I've heard of duels where the challengers get 3 shields each. Guess we don't have rules for shield damage, wear and tear.

I really think the Elementalist could do with more fluff. You need to get Oliver Johnson mixed up with some marijuana and other psychoactive substances to get this one working....

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Speech!





And so the show begins!!!
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dwp ... ssages/640