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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:30 am 
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Reading about some medieval account about a guy breaking shields with his sword on Quora. Inspiring stuff. I know its awkward to have mechanics like this, and especially if I have to monitor the SDC value (Palladium rpg) of inanimate objects which would not be practical. But surely certain combats can be much more dramatic and descriptive, like fighting an orc chieftain with a halberd and seeing your shield get shredded, or blunting your swords into d3,3 cudgels whilst fightin an automaton. Anyone got any thoughts on this? What about striking dragons with non magical, maybe a simple mechanic is that spears get blunted, swords get bent and you quickly figure out you need some light saber or something.

Have you incorporated such elements into your games? What about that sword that shatters after you strike its former master in book 4 original?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:52 am 
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I have two optional rules:

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Optional Rule – Damaging Shields
Shields are not indestructible barriers and can be damaged by powerful blows. An attempt to hit a target with a shield from a facing protected by the shield will hit the shield if the Hit Roll is less than the attacker’s Attack score, but misses because of the target’s Defence score.

A normal shield can withstand any blow that does 5 or fewer points of damage. If a single blow blocked by a shield causes more damage than it can withstand, the blow is still blocked, but the shield loses one point from its maximum damage threshold. When the shield’s damage threshold is reduced to 0, the shield has been destroyed.

Optional Rule - Blunting
Axes and battleaxes can be used to hack locked doors (and other obstacles) to pieces, but at the risk of blunting them.

Battleaxes used in this manner have a 10% chance of blunting, losing 1 from their damage value. Handaxes used in this manner have a 15% chance of blunting, again losing 1 from their damage value if blunted. Axes blunted a second time, drop one die from their armour bypass roll (i.e., a d8 becomes d6, et cetera). Further blunting has no effect. A blacksmith can repair blunt axes at a cost of 1 florin.

I've never really used either rule in practice as it's just more book-keeping. If it makes for a dramatic narrative, then a shield might break or an axe might blunt, but otherwise it's just cumbersome. I'd certainly let a player deliberately target an opponent's shield, tho, and the blunting mechanic could be applied to any weapon striking something that could cause blunting (like the automaton in Kharille's example).

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:21 am 
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There are story elements, say like in Lord of the Rings where Aragorns father's sword shatters. I think there was something like that in Beowulf, in one comic book version I read he had a special shield made to resist dragon fire. It certainly adds more story elements. I'd hate to have to manage ship points but it is very real. I think there was an example of a duel between two vikings who had 3 shields for the purpose of the duel. They knew they'd split them. The 5 point or less rule looks good, guess only super strength people with good weapons can do so. Certainly gives a stronger feel for the combat.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:03 pm 
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To keep the book-keeping low you might only check for a weapon being blunted on a roll of 20 - even then make it rare, such as second roll of 20. If this comes up make a third roll - another 20 destroys the weapon entirely.

So, chance for a blunted/damaged weapon is 1 in 400. Perhaps apply a basic -1 to damage & armour bypass until the weapon is repaired. A damaged weapon is also more susceptible to breaking - a further 'damaged' result is an automatic break.

Chance for a broken weapon is 1 in 8000. The weapon is rendered useless.

Magic weapons would only be subject to this rule when pitted against other magic weapons or foes with equivalent attacks or armour.

Situational modifiers could be applied at the GM's discretion - perhaps if the opponent has a magic weapon, shield or armour the difference in magic bonus is added to the roll when determining if your own weapon is damaged or destroyed. So a normal sword vs a +3 sword gives a difference of 3, so is damaged or destroyed on a 'damage check' roll of 17 or more.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:23 am 
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Perhaps this could happen more frequently when you're up against armour ratings of 5 and above. So using a normal sword on a +1 plate vs +3 plate. It would certainly be impressive, like using a sword on a tree or vs a stone block.

And this is where a +3 sword can get away with slamming into +3 armour and a block of stone. I'm not too keen on the d20 random factor.


Also imagine a vampire wielding a two handed sword. You can catch it on your shield, and your shield will probably shatter. At least, I think it generates a sense of awe especially for under equipped players and npcs. Maybe some guidelines for this happening for 6 damage attacks, and more frequently for 7 and 8 points of damage. Not so sure how to apply this to sword parrying.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:41 pm 
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The D20 randomness is just to keep book-keeping down. All you need to record on a character sheet is 'damaged' or 'broken' next to the weapon when the roll comes up. Recording the 'health' of items is a pain and not worth it.

Although the chance of rolling a 20 then a second 20 is 1 in 400, this is for every combat roll. If there are an average of 10 rolls per combat, then a typical sword will become damaged after an average of 40 fights, all things being equal. A weapon would go from fine to broken in around 80 fights.

You could also force a check whenever you strike and fail to bypass any very hard surface, such as plate armour or the stony hide of a gargoyle. This would further reduce the average number of fights a weapon can be used before becoming damaged.

Paying for weapons of high craftsmanship (10x or more expensive than usual) could increase their durability - in this case just add an extra step for these weapons, so they become 'tarnished' first, then damaged, and finally broken.

Shields are a good point, as they are not used with a D20. If using vanilla DW, then perhaps a shield block always elicits a check - if the damage + armour bypass roll of the weapon exceeds the blockers defence score, then the shield becomes damaged. Blocking a critical hit doubles the value of the armour bypass roll.

In this scenario blocking a normal sword will generate between 5-12 points of stress on a shield. Warriors with a defence score of 11 or less may not always deflect the blow safely. Blocking a critical hit will generate between 6-20 points of stress, so even a high ranking warrior will find it difficult to avoid damaging their shield. If stress exceeds double the blockers defence score, then the shield is destroyed in a single blow!

Magic and strength bonuses can be incorporated too. A +3 sword used by a strength 18 warrior has a shield busting potential of (D8+3+2)+(4+3+2) = 15 to 22. Only the greatest warriors can block such a blow and maintain their shield integrity, while low ranks may find their shields sundered in a single strike.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:09 pm 
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I like all those suggestions. Next time I will master DW, I will have the choice between all those the optional rules in the forum :).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:32 am 
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All the more reason to favour maces and cudgels....



Just taking this idea further. I remember reading norse mythology, not sure if it was Sigurd or somebody but to prove that a sword was good they were cutting anvils in half. Of course it sounds ridiculous in this 21st century age but with +3 magic weapons? Imagine if Uther Pendragon was a strength 16-18 guy (Excalibur 81' he claimed he was the strongest), this guy is hitting with +4 damage and armour bypass, d8+4,8, assuming Excalibur was not a mediocre enchanted weapon and whomever forged it was not some low level mystic. I don't see how normal shields can block such a weapon, and maybe even non enchanted weapons could be swept aside and broken against such a weapon. Its an extension of game mechanics. I think Wotan destroyed Sigurds weapon on the battlefield by hitting it with an even stronger weapon if I recall correctly, so maybe gods have a monopoly on +4 weapons? Anyway, I wouldn't want to get too involved in the mechanics, die rolls and weapon maintenance stats but I think in the same way hitting something with armour factor 8 will turn your d8,4 sword into a d3,3 cudgel, or notch your sword, or bend it. I think the gauls had this happen a lot when fighting romans with bronze swords and had to do on the spot repair jobs.

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