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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:59 am 
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Was thinking about certain situations and gathering thoughts on some situations. If an Assassin crawled out of a moat and was then hit by DRAGONBREATH surely he would take less damage since he was completely immersed in water? On the same note, what if DRAGONBREATH was used in a desert environment? I'd say that the environment would be so dry it would be most likely that the target would catch fire.

Have you incorporated such situations when resolving your indirect magical attacks? Would SHADOWBOLT or NOVA light an oil soaked character? Can you detonate barrels of chaubretian brandy using HAVOK?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:54 am 
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Kharille wrote:
Was thinking about certain situations and gathering thoughts on some situations. If an Assassin crawled out of a moat and was then hit by DRAGONBREATH surely he would take less damage since he was completely immersed in water? On the same note, what if DRAGONBREATH was used in a desert environment? I'd say that the environment would be so dry it would be most likely that the target would catch fire.

Have you incorporated such situations when resolving your indirect magical attacks? Would SHADOWBOLT or NOVA light an oil soaked character? Can you detonate barrels of chaubretian brandy using HAVOK?

It is true that, within physics, temperature and thermal energy (and thermal conduction, of course, but lets not even go there...) are two different (but related) things. You could argue that whilst Dragonbreath is hot, it has a relatively low thermal energy so would be less effective against a target that can absorb more thermal energy without increasing greatly in temperature. This is almost sort of represented by the fact that an armour's AF protects against Dragonbreath. If you _really_ wanted to bother, just assign a protective material an AF against heat-based attacks and apply that modifier to damage (e.g., water-logged clothes might be AF 1 vs. fire for a single attack).

Or, you can just say that it's magic and so does the damage dealt regardless of the thermal properties of the target - which, for a simple system like Dragon Warriors, works for me.

As for igniting readily flammable materials; absolutely! Dragonbreath is still fire, after all, so dry grasses, oil, paper, sawdust, Greek fire (if you allow it), etc., will all catch quite easily - fabrics (especially leather) much less so, although thin, dry fabrics like linen might catch quite quickly.

Alcohol is a much more difficult flammable material to adjudicate because it all comes down to the percentage of alcohol in the liquid and the ambient temperature. When alcohol burns, what actually burns is the vapour, not the liquid, and the warmer the liquid, the more vapour is produced. Whilst not hard-and-fast, you'd need a liquid of about 50% alcohol to ignite readily at room temperature. That said, of course, if you throw a barrel of lower-concentration alcohol into a burning building, the liquid will quickly heat up, releasing more vapour and burn more readily. Although, of course, brandy in a barrel will not burn until the barrel breaks open, allowing the alcohol vapour to mix with oxygen - lastly, consider spilling brandy across a floor would increase the liquid's surface area, increasing the amount of vapour and greatly increasing the brandy's surface area to volume ratio which would mean it will warm faster, too, releasing *even more* vapour. It's basically, all about context.

So, basically, how strong is Chaubrettan brandy in your campaign, at what temperature is it being stored, is there sufficient surface area across the exposed surface of the liquid to release enough vapour to combust, what is the thermal energy profile of a Dragonbreath, and is there enough heat being continuously injected into the system by the burning vapour (or otherwise) to sustain an ongoing reaction? The most likely outcome is that there would just be a brief flash as the vapour ignites, but then goes out almost immediately. The even more likely outcome is that the Dragonbreath destroys the barrel but the brandy just spills out without igniting (which isn't to say a second Dragonbreath might not have more luck with the now exposed brandy).

Or you can just say it's magic and, should it suit a cinematic campaign theme, the barrels go boom.

Next you'll want to know how quickly a wall of ice melts (spoiler alert, *really* slowly, unless there are significant environmental factors). If there's a demand for a calculator on the Cobwebbed Forest where you can check to see whether a particular common medieval substance ignites/explodes when targeted by Dragonbreath given certain environmental variables, feel free to request it (although expect to be bitterly disappointed..).

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:50 am 
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Just got me thinking about environmental kills. Crossed my mind how powerful some of those MIRAGE or IMAGE spells can be if you create a false extension on a cliff face, with something shiny. Great way to start combat.

I suppose FIRESTORM only had a small entry but imagine the destruction if you hurled that in a town? After all non ranks run for cover, there would be a fire and I think everyone would be more focused on putting out the fire. Course' not much of an issue in Thuland with all the rain... Depends on the season I suppose.

I do feel that there are interesting environmental effects that may result from some of these spells. Just curious as to exploring these. We have rules for falling masonry but what if the players were to drop boulders on an Ogre? Seems like a combination of SPEED vs EVASION as well as ATTACK rolls involved.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:16 am 
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Kharille wrote:
Just got me thinking about environmental kills. Crossed my mind how powerful some of those MIRAGE or IMAGE spells can be if you create a false extension on a cliff face, with something shiny. Great way to start combat.

I love illusions - used creatively, they are some the most powerful spells in the game, if you ask me :).

Kharille wrote:
I suppose FIRESTORM only had a small entry but imagine the destruction if you hurled that in a town? After all non ranks run for cover, there would be a fire and I think everyone would be more focused on putting out the fire. Course' not much of an issue in Thuland with all the rain... Depends on the season I suppose.

It all comes back to the temperature vs. thermal energy debate and does water make any difference to magical fire in your campaign? But as a higher level spell, I would expect Firestorm to be more destructive than Dragonbreath and an excellent distraction in any urban setting. Assuming you have characters that are comfortable with the indiscriminate mass murder of innocents, of course, at which even villainous NPCs might baulk!

Kharille wrote:
I do feel that there are interesting environmental effects that may result from some of these spells. Just curious as to exploring these. We have rules for falling masonry but what if the players were to drop boulders on an Ogre? Seems like a combination of SPEED vs EVASION as well as ATTACK rolls involved.

The creative uses of spells to damage the environment and cause more damage than directly targeting the spell at someone is to be strongly encouraged - the clinical alternating exchange of hits/spells leads to dull (and protracted) combats. A little narrative creativity can go a long way to injecting memorable scenes into an otherwise mechanical exercise in dice rolling, even if adjudicating them can be a bit of a headache for the GM sometimes...

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