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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:05 am 
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I am wondering whether there should be a revision to the healing rules. Not sure what happened in the new edition since I never read it, or at least not to such depth but if I recall correctly you have to totally rest for several days then enjoy healing.

Can't this process be accelerated?

Perhaps an incentive to look for specialist treatment would be to introduce more negative consequences such as infected wounds which was a realistic possibility, in an age without modern medicine, what was the possibility that limbs would be amputated as a result of a dirty arrowhead?

Apart from MIRACLE CURE most healing spells do not regenerate lost limbs or organs. So what do they regenerate? Nerve endings? I know that the danger of blades includes severing nerves and thus rendering limbs useless. Is it possible that a healing spell could regenerate a broken spine from a fall?


I'd like to leave this link for inspiration, how a locksmith can be a renown surgeon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bradmore

Before the Battle of Shrewsbury, Bradmore had been imprisoned on suspicion of using his metalworking skills for illegal purposes — namely counterfeiting coins. After the sixteen-year-old prince Henry had been shot in the face at Shrewsbury, he was released in order to aid him.[3]

Bradmore attended the prince at Kenilworth, where the wounded Henry had been taken after the battle. An arrow penetrated on the left side below the eye and beside the nose of the young prince. When surgeons tried to remove the arrow, the shaft broke, leaving the barbed point embedded in his skull some five to six inches deep, narrowly missing the brain stem, and surrounding arteries. Several other physicians had already been called on to resolve the problem, but were unable to help. Bradmore's successor as royal surgeon, Thomas Morestede, later called them "lewd chattering leeches".[4]

Bradmore instructed honey to be poured into the wound and invented an instrument to be used in the extraction. Two threaded tongs held a centre threaded tong, which could be inserted into the wound: the shape not unlike a corkscrew inside a split cylinder. The centre rod, once it located the shaft of the arrowhead, could be inserted into the socket and it, along with the device could be extracted. The instrument was quickly made, either by Bradmore or by a blacksmith to Bradmore's specifications. Bradmore himself guided it into the wound to extract the arrowhead successfully.[3] The wound was then filled with alcohol (wine) to cleanse it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:55 am 
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Not sure what happened in the new edition since I never read it

The rules stay the same: 4 days' rest, then rank/day.

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Can't this process be accelerated?

Possibly - if you allow skills like First Aid and/or Chirurgery. First Aid, if successfully applied soon after combat, may allow a character to recover 1HP (at least, that's what I allow). Chirurgery (usually a skill for the non-adventuring classes) might allow healing after only 3, or even 2, days' rest (I haven't really thought this one through)...

Quote:
consequences such as infected wounds

Those are certainly a possibility. As most parties have a sorcerer on hand (for healing), I tend to avoid such things... Unless there's a clear circumstance (e.g. getting wounded while fighting in a sewer). Otherwise, you could use the Disease rules (DW book 3, pages 184-185, or pages 126-127 in the new book) to see if an infection occurs.

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So what do they regenerate?

As a rule of thumb, I have minor healing spells close clean, open wounds. They prevent bleeding. They do not re-attach limbs.
I allow greater healing spells (e.g. Greater Healing, Vitality) to re-attach a limb if this is done immediately after combat - just like in real life where limbs can be re-attached if the limb has not been allowed to die. The lost limb has to be present and "fresh"...

...In contrast, Miracle Cure regenerates missing limbs. A true miracle! :D

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Is it possible that a healing spell could regenerate a broken spine from a fall?

It's possible. The joust fall damage table (DW book 6, page 132; new book page 200) states: "98-100 Broken neck: character dies unless a spell of Greater Healing is cast upon him within one minute, and even then he cannot fight for the next 1-3 days; Miracle Cure is also needed 20% of the time to prevent paralysis." You could apply this rule to a broken spine.

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...how a locksmith can be a renown surgeon:

Cool. Interesting story. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:02 pm 
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I know the Herbalist Profession on the Wiki has a 'herbalism' skill, that - also on the Wiki - the Mystic also has, to a lesser degree, but what about some kind of Healing skill, available to Mystics, Friars, Water Elementalists (the most heal-y of the elements) and maybe some kind of dedicated Healer Profession.

Elementalists and Mystics could expend magical energy to gain 'Healing Points', which then turn to Health Points in another character (Elementalist: MP -> HP, Mystic makes a +4 PF check for 4-5 HP for something).

To represent the Healing (note the capital H) taking a toll out of the healer, the price of Healing could also be the Healer's very HP or Strength Points temporarily going into Healing the injured character (recovered over a few days or something). This sacrifice wight only be necessary to drive out a disease or magical sickness from a character's blood or stopping death until a Miracle Cure can be cast.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Thoughts?


Hmm. I think you have to be careful with this one…

You can always add a skill here, a spell there, beef up the healing available to the PCs, or even create a dedicated healer. The trouble is, once you’ve done that you might as well have a "Cleric" or "party healer" and then you've effectively got a D&D adventuring party on your hands.
(So, really, it's down to what kind of game you prefer – if you like combat-heavy dungeon crawls, then beefing up the healing in DW may well be necessary.)

Another issue with increasing healing amongst all the professions listed (and something I've not seen seriously considered in any fantasy world so far); what are the implications for society as a whole?
Unlike in the real medieval world (on which Legend is based), people would suddenly have access to effective medical treatment... Plagues could be defeated at the outset. Healers, being demonstrably effective, could charge (heavily) for their services. Priests of the Church could ask for significant donations. The Church would probably become even more wealthy and powerful than it currently is…
The whole demographic of Legend could start to shift as the rich (who can afford the healers) stop dying, but impoverish themselves seeking healing for family members... (I could go on...)

Personally, I think I like the DW healing the way it is. You have natural healing that takes time, but can be slightly improved with existing skills (especially if you allow herbs and Herbalists from the Wiki). Rare practitioners of magic have access to powers that provide unnaturally fast and effective healing – but they are rare. Their powers are not limitless either, so they have to choose how much healing they provide – at the expense of their other magicks.

By "rationing" healing this way, I find that PCs (in my games) are more careful about entering into combat. Fighting still happens, of course, but they know they can't rely on quasi-limitless healing and, thus, tend to choose combat as a last resort.
(But I'll repeat; it's really down to the style of game you prefer.)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:28 pm 
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I like the low-key healing in DW but I've never really cared for the actual mechanic used. Specifically, the four-day waiting period followed by healing at a rate equal to rank. This produces a (to me) weird situation in which a, say, 8th rank Elementalist with only 3 HP remaining after a battle stays badly wounded for four days, and then by the end of the next day is completely healed. It also raises the question of what happens when a character is wounded during the four-day waiting period or while already healing; presumably the new wounds need to be separately tracked to see when they start getting better, right?


Cheers,

-Kyle


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:13 pm 
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WodenKrait wrote:
I like the low-key healing in DW but I've never really cared for the actual mechanic used. Specifically, the four-day waiting period followed by healing at a rate equal to rank. This produces a (to me) weird situation in which a, say, 8th rank Elementalist with only 3 HP remaining after a battle stays badly wounded for four days, and then by the end of the next day is completely healed. It also raises the question of what happens when a character is wounded during the four-day waiting period or while already healing; presumably the new wounds need to be separately tracked to see when they start getting better, right?


Cheers,

-Kyle


I always just start them again if they get injured during their recovery period....life sucks, bed rest and recovery is their best option.

That said it has worked pretty well for me over the years so I don't see any need to change it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:36 pm 
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I always just start them again if they get injured during their recovery period....life sucks, bed rest and recovery is their best option.

Same here. Injuries sustained during the rest period imply strenuous activity... Which probably opened the old wounds (or something).

I do see the absurdity of healing Rank/day after the four days (so a high level character can be fully healed in a week), but I can live with it. It's a simple mechanic (which has a lot to recommend it, in my book). In practice, how often do player characters spend their full time recovering without either magic* or a decent "time passes"...?
* If the characters are in a hurry, that would be the time to use up those saved healing potions! ;)

By way of comparison, King Arthur Pendragon RPG has a natural healing rate of (STR+CON)/10 per week and virtually no magical healing! That really puts combat into perspective. Maybe the DW healing system isn't so bad after all? It's a compromise between the realism of long-term recovery and playability... I find it's always worth remembering that DW is a game, after all. ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:25 am 
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Back of my mind, perhaps some more counterspells would be nice. If a sorceror has done a command, surely everyone should get their own low level dispel magic skills? Maybe that should go in another thread.


I suppose when you're stuck in an underwurlde, staying in place for 5 days is a bit much. Guess players can get impatient and camping out even for a few hours in a hostile underground complex would be bad. Perhaps some form of 'first aid' to restore 1 point might be in order, though perhaps complex. And what about a system of bleeding? Realistically I've heard that a lot of real life casualties are caused by bleeding. Perhaps each wound can be subjected to a 'first aid +1hp' treatment system. Not much help for battleaxe injuries but good for stab wounds. Also it wouldn't be something you can apply to blunt trauma/maces/staves.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:03 am 
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Maybe that should go in another thread.

Yes, I think so. Sounds like a topic that could engender debate. ;)

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I suppose when you're stuck in an underwurlde, staying in place for 5 days is a bit much.

I would tend to agree. If the characters are so hurt that they need to rest up, then they need to back out and go somewhere to rest. An underworld is not a good place to find proper rest - the conditions don't allow it (ever been caving? It gets pretty cold and often damp, too) so that would have to be the product of desperation...*
* For example; if they're trapped in an orc's nest, have barricaded the door, and have no way to escape other than to fight their way out.

Quote:
And what about a system of bleeding? Realistically....

How nasty do you want combat to get in DW? Yes, in reality bleeding wounds cause a lot of deaths (shock from blood loss), but is that something you want to bring in to DW?

This would also bring in an extra level of complexity and record-keeping into what is currently a fairly simple (yet workable) game system. One of the strengths of DW (IMO) is that it is quick and easy to play. Every added bit of "realism" adds an extra bit of complexity. So, unless it was somehow relevant to the story, I probably wouldn't bother with bleeding wounds.

Quote:
Perhaps each wound can be subjected to a 'first aid +1hp' treatment system.

Someone has already suggested a "house rule" where you have a chance (on a Critical Success) of regaining health: http://dragonwarriors.wikifoundry.com/page/First+Aid

I have to admit I allow successful First Aid to recover 1HP at the end of a combat. It applies to all wounds taken in that combat, rather than by individual wound (which would be too complicated anyway). The character has to have First Aid as a skill and also succeed their check, of course.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:32 am 
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Damian May wrote:
I always just start them again if they get injured during their recovery period....life sucks, bed rest and recovery is their best option.


The problem is the four day thing doesn't mean anything and if it is intended to discourage characters from adventuring while wounded, its a bad way to do it. A penalty to healing rate when doing so makes more sense. The four day thing is arbitrary, counterintuitive, and dumb.

Damian May wrote:
That said it has worked pretty well for me over the years so I don't see any need to change it.


That's what Americans say when people ask them why they still use the Imperial system of measurements. Just because you can get by with one system is no reason not to switch to something better.

Cheers,

-Kyle


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