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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:59 pm 
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I've been reading how people think the Knights and Barbarians get a bit of a raw deal in DW. I'm inclined to agree when it comes to barbarians - they can berserk and, later, they can Bloodrage. That's pretty much it. (And Bloodrage, does seem to be a bit like drawing the "do or die" card in the Escape From Colditz board game.)

Could not Barbarians be offered a skill akin to Main Gauche at Rank 10? Instead of calling it Main Gauche (which is for Knights), you could call it... erm... Two-Weapon Fighting (or something?). Unlike the knightly skill, this skill would allow a Rank 10 Barbarian to use any one-handed weapon in each hand - otherwise the skill would be identical in application to Main Gauche. Thus you could end up with a barbarian, as so often portrayed on the Internet, charging into the fray with an axe in each hand...*

* One-handed axes, obviously. I prefer (d8,4) - equivalent to a sword - for a hand-axe; but the Players Guide pgs. 113 - 114 prefers (d6,5) for a War Axe.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:42 am 
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Possible, possible. In order to sell more books you create high powered characters like warlocks, which I can't visualize the historical basis. Heard it might have something to do with 'Elric' but I haven't read the novels.

Personally I think the horseriding and shield rules should be expanded upon. Big feature, of course others can use shields but maybe knights and barbarians can get good at it. And anything that helps the tank would help.

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Last edited by Kharille on Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:58 am 
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...others can use shields but maybe knights and barbarians can get good at it...

Oddly enough, I was saving Expert Parry for another topic. It's such a weak skill as to be almost worthless and am considering how it could be improved (without making it too powerful).

DW has virtually no rules covering mounted combat - which is surprising, considering obtaining a warhorse would seem to be a goal for two of the core professions (knight, barbarian). I've had to make up a few rules for my own campaigns where knights charged into battle on their warhorses.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:26 am 
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I'm sure that there are many situations where cavalry don't work, such as in forests or underground. But that is fact. Heinz Guderian said that tanks should only be employed in suitable terrain, so no forrests or urban environments. If more players take up the archer profession, should be interesting to see it in action as masters of open areas. Thats until the cavalry charge in and waste them. Thats historically accurate right? Cept' in Agincourt.


I think there should be an expansion of 'charging' rules. I'm thinking, 0 defence, bonus to attack and damage. And then, more so for a charging warhorse, your strikes have the momentum of a ... 1000lb horse behind it. Curious whether there is any concise reading about cavalry attacks in practice.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:57 am 
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I think there should be an expansion of 'charging' rules. I'm thinking, 0 defence, bonus to attack and damage. And then, more so for a charging warhorse, your strikes have the momentum of a ... 1000lb horse behind it. Curious whether there is any concise reading about cavalry attacks in practice.

At the risk of moving "off topic", but as you raise the point...

...I offer the rules I've been using for mounted combat in DW. I'm in the process of revising these, so things might change, but they've served me well for a great many years.

Mounted archery confers a significant penalty. A GM might want to have some barbarians (e.g. those of the Eastern Steppes) given a skill that counters the penalty.

I deliberately made the lance in combat quite devastating. The massed lance charge ruled the battlefield for centuries and was only defeated when faced with massed archers behind prepared defences. Everyone remembers Poitiers, Crécy and Agincourt... But we tend to forget that the English were swept away at Orléans when Joan of Arc had her knights charge the English before they had prepared their positions.
(I don't see lance charges occurring often in DW and, indeed, they have been rare in my games. It's more something for the characters to be wary of when they're dealing with a well-equipped knights.)

Anyway, have a read. The rules might not be to everyone's tastes and I'm open to comments.

Other rules for Mounted Combat can be found in the Cobwebbed Forest: http://www.cobwebbedforest.co.uk/librar ... Mounts.pdf


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:06 pm 
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Here's some quick rules I knocked up for a slightly more varied take on the Barbarian profession, which as it stands only really represents the stereotypical Mercanian or Thulish warrior, and doesn't comfortably reflect barbarians of other cultures.

Note I have added three new skills to the mix - Expert Swimmer, Horse Archery & Master Slinger. I'll explain these first before going into the changes to the Barbarian Profession (these can be also found in my 'Skill Based Character Generation' rules).

Expert Swimmer
An expert swimmer can move far more confidently through the water, and moves up to 5m per combat round at full stroke. He can hold his breath for twice as long as a normal person (rounds equal to Strength score x2), and when swimming encumbered only deducts half the usual penalty. When making swimming rolls, an expert swimmer may use Strength or Reflexes (whichever is higher) to determine success.

An expert swimmer can fight aquatic enemies with only half the usual penalty; they suffer -2 to Attack and -4 to Defence.

Horse Archery
The warrior may fire a normal bow from horseback (or indeed any moving platform) with no penalty. Normally attempting such a feat without this skill halves the archers normal basic Attack score (before taking into account further penalties due to range or illumination). This skill can only be taken if the warrior can ride warhorses and is also a Master Bowman (and is normally only available to barbarians of the Eastern Steppes in any case).

Master Slinger
This skill is exactly the same as the Master Bowman skill, but covers the use of slings rather than bows.


Barbarians
The basic attributes (such as Attack, Defence etc.) remain unchanged from the published rules. However, the homeland of the Barbarian determines their starting skills. Note that Wearing Medium Armour, Berserk, Track and Ride Warhorse are no longer abilities exhibited by all Barbarians universally! Some limited skills of the mighty are available from 8th rank onward. Main Gauche is now available to Barbarians as a 'Skill of the Mighty', but cannot be used in conjunction with Berserk or Bloodrage, for obvious reasons. A few barbarians have access to skills normally outside of the Knight or Barbarian profession - Climb, Unarmed Combat, Arrow Cutting and Adepthood. These are treated exactly as the original skills.

Mercanian
Expert Swimmer
Berserk
Wear Medium Armour (can wear up to AF4 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Thulish
Track
Berserk
Wear Medium Armour (can wear up to AF4 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Eastern Steppe
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Ride Warhorse
Master Bowman
Horse Archery
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Gnawing Wastes
Track
Berserk
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Master Bowman
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Trackless Ooze
Expert Swimmer
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Climb
Berserk
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Bloodrage, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Emphidor
Expert Swimmer
Track
Climb
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Master Slinger
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Harogarn
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Arrow Cutting
Unarmed Combat
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Adepthood, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Drakken Peaks
Expert Swimmer
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Climb
Master Bowman
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Kiakuhuru
Track
Berserk
Wear Medium Armour (can wear up to AF4 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Zhenir
Ride Warhorse
Berserk
Medium Armour
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Track, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Mistral Sea
Expert Swimmer
Track
Climb
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Berserk
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Bloodrage, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Azure Coast
Expert Swimmer
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Climb
Berserk
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Bloodrage, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Thanagost Peaks
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Weaponskill Spear
Master Slinger
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Mungoda
Track
Expert Swimmer
Climb
Master Slinger
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Cosh Goyope
Track
Expert Swimmer
Climb
Master Bowman
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:14 pm 
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wimlach wrote:
Main Gauche is now available to Barbarians as a 'Skill of the Mighty', but cannot be used in conjunction with Berserk or Bloodrage, for obvious reasons.


I think Main Gauche (only the two attacks part) would be good during Bloodrage, as per the 'two axes' picture and discussion near the top of this thread.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:04 pm 
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wimlach wrote:
Here's some quick rules I knocked up for a slightly more varied take on the Barbarian profession, which as it stands only really represents the stereotypical Mercanian or Thulish warrior, and doesn't comfortably reflect barbarians of other cultures.

Note I have added three new skills to the mix - Expert Swimmer, Horse Archery & Master Slinger. I'll explain these first before going into the changes to the Barbarian Profession (these can be also found in my 'Skill Based Character Generation' rules).

Expert Swimmer
An expert swimmer can move far more confidently through the water, and moves up to 5m per combat round at full stroke. He can hold his breath for twice as long as a normal person (rounds equal to Strength score x2), and when swimming encumbered only deducts half the usual penalty. When making swimming rolls, an expert swimmer may use Strength or Reflexes (whichever is higher) to determine success.

An expert swimmer can fight aquatic enemies with only half the usual penalty; they suffer -2 to Attack and -4 to Defence.

Horse Archery
The warrior may fire a normal bow from horseback (or indeed any moving platform) with no penalty. Normally attempting such a feat without this skill halves the archers normal basic Attack score (before taking into account further penalties due to range or illumination). This skill can only be taken if the warrior can ride warhorses and is also a Master Bowman (and is normally only available to barbarians of the Eastern Steppes in any case).

Master Slinger
This skill is exactly the same as the Master Bowman skill, but covers the use of slings rather than bows.


Barbarians
The basic attributes (such as Attack, Defence etc.) remain unchanged from the published rules. However, the homeland of the Barbarian determines their starting skills. Note that Wearing Medium Armour, Berserk, Track and Ride Warhorse are no longer abilities exhibited by all Barbarians universally! Some limited skills of the mighty are available from 8th rank onward. Main Gauche is now available to Barbarians as a 'Skill of the Mighty', but cannot be used in conjunction with Berserk or Bloodrage, for obvious reasons. A few barbarians have access to skills normally outside of the Knight or Barbarian profession - Climb, Unarmed Combat, Arrow Cutting and Adepthood. These are treated exactly as the original skills.

Mercanian
Expert Swimmer
Berserk
Wear Medium Armour (can wear up to AF4 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Thulish
Track
Berserk
Wear Medium Armour (can wear up to AF4 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Eastern Steppe
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Ride Warhorse
Master Bowman
Horse Archery
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Gnawing Wastes
Track
Berserk
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Master Bowman
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Trackless Ooze
Expert Swimmer
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Climb
Berserk
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Bloodrage, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Emphidor
Expert Swimmer
Track
Climb
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Master Slinger
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Harogarn
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Arrow Cutting
Unarmed Combat
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Adepthood, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Drakken Peaks
Expert Swimmer
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Climb
Master Bowman
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Kiakuhuru
Track
Berserk
Wear Medium Armour (can wear up to AF4 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Zhenir
Ride Warhorse
Berserk
Medium Armour
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Track, Bloodrage, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Mistral Sea
Expert Swimmer
Track
Climb
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Berserk
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Bloodrage, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Azure Coast
Expert Swimmer
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Climb
Berserk
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Bloodrage, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Thanagost Peaks
Track
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Weaponskill Spear
Master Slinger
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Ride Warhorse, Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Mungoda
Track
Expert Swimmer
Climb
Master Slinger
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)

Cosh Goyope
Track
Expert Swimmer
Climb
Master Bowman
Wear Light Armour (can wear up to AF3 with no penalty)
Skills of the Mighty (may choose one skill per rank from 8th onward - Wear Medium Armour, Main Gauche, Weaponskill)


Quite similar to my Barbarian material in Cadaver Draconis. Great minds think alike.

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co-author Friends or Foes
co-author Dragon Warriors Players Guide
co-author Cold Fury
co-author Cadaver Draconis
co-author Ordo Draconis 1 and 2.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:14 pm 
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Quote:
Here's some quick rules...

Good stuff! Thanks for sharing. I'll be saving those... ;)

Quote:
Quite similar to my Barbarian material in Cadaver Draconis.

:shock: !! I'd completely forgotten about Cadaver Draconis... I think I'll re-read my copy. Thanks for the reminder!


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