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A Crusade to Glissom (and other places)
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Author:  WodenKrait [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  A Crusade to Glissom (and other places)
One thing I've wondered about with the world of Legend is why the lands of the True Faith®© tolerate aberrant faiths on their doorstep. For instance, Glissom doesn't follow the true faith but instead some kooky elemental religion. Why doesn't the king of Ellesland (or his archbishop(s)) declare a holy war against the heathens to the north the same way the French did against the Cathars, or the pope did against the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II, or the German crusades against the pagans in northern Europe etc?

In fact, what would a religious map of Legend look like? Which countries are True Faith, which ar Ta'ashim, and which are "other (please specify"?

Cheers,

-Kyle
Author:  hermes421 [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Crusade to Glissom (and other places)
WodenKrait wrote:
Why doesn't the king (...) declare a holy war against the heathens to the north the same way the French did against the Cathars, or the pope did against the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II, or the German crusades against the pagans in northern Europe etc?

Hello, here is my humble opinion and my assessments.

First, in history the crusades in Jérusalem were a good way for Kings to send their bellicose lords fighting (who expected to have lands there and not in a tiny cold country as Glissom).
And the cost for the crowns were very important (I ve readen somewhere that the pope in Europe made pressure on Kings to fight on : money still be needed for doing a crusade).
I think the crusade in Ibrahim is the priority instead of small countries(because Taashim competes too much with the true faith, and mainly because lands are located in good place , for trading I guess).
Second , about the cathares, one official reason was the murder of a papal legate, but i ve readen somewhere the régions invaded were rich and could be the true reason (as often we come back to money)
Finally, at this moment, the king of Albony (I guess you meant him) is weak , his autority is not respected by many lords. I don t see him running a crusade.
Quote:
In fact, what would a religious map of Legend look like? Which countries are True Faith, which ar Ta'ashim, and which are "other (please specify)"?

I guess for taashim it s not very difficult, and we know more or less what real country inspire a country in Legends, it could help (as the book 6 or the wiki). I don t see krarth as a true faith country (it s a mix between finland and Russia)

Cheers
Author:  Dreadnought [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Crusade to Glissom (and other places)
Well, in my own version of Legend.

Opalar, Sultanate of: Ta'ashim
Marazid, Emirate of: Ta'ashim
Zhenir, Caliphate of: Ta'ashim
Outremer (Principality of the Crusade): Nominally True Faith (Primarily Selentine Church, with long term pockets of the Old Church), in fact, still largely Ta'ashim
Ta'ashim Harogarn: Ta'ashim
Molasaria: True Faith (Old Church)
Emphidor: True Faith (Old Church)
Analika: True Faith (Old Church)
Hudristania: True Faith (mostly Selentine Church, but with considerable amounts of Old Church adherents among small villages and old families)
Asmulia: True Faith (mostly Selentine Church, but noble families tend to be Old Church, and the Royal Family are Tamorian Church)
New Selentine Empire: True Faith (Tamorian Church)
The Ferromaine League: True Faith (Roughly evenly split between Tamorian Church and Selentine Church. The Dyuch is required to swear religious tolerance as part of his ruling oath)
Kurland: True Faith (Selentine Church but with Tamorian influences on matters like architecture and similar, though not doctrine and dogma). Novan Heresy is present and significant at a low level throughout the Kingdom.
Braeburg: True Faith (Selentine Church). Novan Heresy present everywhere and dominates some areas.
Lavasse: True Faith (Selentine Church)
Chaubrette: True Faith (Selentine Church)
Algandy: True Faith (Selentine Church but with an undercurrent of autonomy and resistance to control from outside)
Albion: True Faith (Selentine Church)
Cornumbria: True Faith (Monastic Church of Cornumbria)
Thuland: True Faith (Selentine Church) but often coexisting with Northern Paganism.
Mercania: Northern Paganism but True Faith (Selentine Church) has increasing influence.
Ereworn: Elemental Paganism/Demonism
Glissom: Elemental Paganism
Krarth: Magi Star Worship
Wyrd: Worship of the Witch King (as the Greatest and Last of the True Magi)
Yggdras: Magi Star Worship
Nomad Khanates: Khanate Ancestor Worship
Mungoda: Various local faiths, rumours of much more powerful centralised religions in some areas.

The various varieties of the True Faith tend to tolerate each other. There may also be different varieties of Ta'ashim, but this is unclear to observers from outside. And there is the 'Old Faith' that is present in many of the lands of the True Faith, and possibly in some parts of the Ta'ashim lands as well. They are seen as a faith ancestral to the True Faith (and possibly also to Ta'ashim - although in some circles that idea is frowned upon because it is seen as giving 'false legitimacy' to Ta'ashim beliefs). It's a rough analogue of Judaism (in the same way that the True Faith can be considered an analogue of Christianity, and Ta'ashim of Islam) and is treated differently in different kingdoms. Sometimes oppressed, sometimes tolerated, in a few places even accepted.

In general I play down the religious bigotry common in the Middle Ages in my own games, except for zealots. While there are enough religious tensions to allow for the Crusade as a 'Holy War', a great many educated people treat the beliefs of others with respect, as long as they are not overtly evil.

And in my games, the reason there hasn't been a Crusade against Ereworn (especially) and Glissom is largely down to the Cornumbrian Church acting as a buffer. The more powerful Selentine Church would probably be in favour of the idea of suppressing north west Ellesland by force, but the Cornumbrian Church believes it can achieve the same results through gradual missionary work - and while the Selentine Church has no respect for Ereworn or Glissom, the obvious decent faith of many Cornumbrian friars is respected (this is also the reason why the Selentines have not tried too hard to impose their heirarchy on Cornumbria).
Author:  Damian May [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Crusade to Glissom (and other places)
Real reasons for crusades ( simplified) Money and Land.

Ereworn and Glissom have little of either...
Author:  Damian May [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Crusade to Glissom (and other places)
Also Rimfax turned the last crusade into plague :-D. :-D
Author:  hermes421 [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Crusade to Glissom (and other places)
I took your list which is rather complete
By the way, please
could you tell me where is the central place for selentine Church autority?
For Tamorian Church is it Tamor?
What is the main difference , in a couple of sentences if need to explain it clearly, please?

Thank you
Author:  WodenKrait [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Crusade to Glissom (and other places)
Excellent list Dreadought. Many thanks.

Damian May wrote:
Real reasons for crusades ( simplified) Money and Land.

Ereworn and Glissom have little of either...


Somewhat true if a little cynical (many crusaders, even at the highest level, were genuinely moved by religious zeal). Probably very true for the many "secondary" crusades though.

I'm not sure about the kingdoms being too poor (in wealth and land) to bother about though; Glissom in particular can support a population of 10,000 in its capital, which makes it a huge city in the scale of mediaeval connurbations in that part of the world. Ereworn is a bit of a drecksloch though. I suppose it would be worth invading just to use as as a prize for one of the more dissolute scions of the royal family when you can't get away with giving them nothing. "What? Father has all these counties to choose from and he makes me Duke of Ereworn!?"

Damian May wrote:
Also Rimfax turned the last crusade into plague :-D. :-D


I wonder how well a crusade would fare if the troops were routinely being devastated by a clearly superior demonic adversary? I'm sure Rimfax would be more than happy to put in a personal appearance for an army marching under his banner, but I doubt you could say the same for the god of the True Faith.

Cheers,

-Kyle
Author:  Dreadnought [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Crusade to Glissom (and other places)
hermes421 wrote:
I took your list which is rather complete
By the way, please
could you tell me where is the central place for selentine Church autority?
For Tamorian Church is it Tamor?


The Selentine Church is based out of Selentium which is in Asmulia. The Tamorian Church is based out of Tamor, which is in the New Selentine Empire.

hermes421 wrote:
What is the main difference , in a couple of sentences if need to explain it clearly, please?


I think I had better say - wait for the Players Guide :)

And while I agree that Crusades are largely about land and money, over a long period of time, genuine religious pressures do have an impact as well.
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