Dragon Warriors

On the subject of social interaction rules, how about this for a deliberately inflamatory suggestion: bad roleplayers and bad communicators should stick to playing grunting hack-and slashers/taciturn magic users and leave the social professions for players who are eloquent or who can immerse themselves into the role. That avoids the need for a ruleset to compensate them (or conversely to handicap their more sophisticated counterparts).

Thoughts?

Cheers,

-Kyle

Interesting - dice rolled in secret or the open provide no more control to the player (both are arbitrary). But secret die rolls provide more narrative suspense as the outcome is not revealed to the player until the role-played interaction concludes, which is more important in social interactions than combat.


And this is how I try to set up my social scenes in my own games - it's not over after the first roll of a die, but more of an ongoing contest of offer, counter-offer, etc. Which is kinda where I was going with this:


Maybe I'll post some examples in a different thread sometime (as I think I might have hijacked this thread away from the Knave somewhat already...)

_________________
Cobwebbed Dragon (Lee)

https://www.cobwebbedforest.co.uk/
https://www.dragonwarriors.uk/
https://twitter.com/CobwebbedDragon
Now on YouTube!

Yep definitely more complicated! Simplicity is what is needed here!

I agree that it seems the knave rules are written without the looks rules in mind, so when you combine them it just becomes a tangled mess.

The feedback I gave from play testing was to include the looks rules (at least for the knave even if other professions don't use them) but drop the knave's rank bonus. Change presence to be the knave can now add their rank to looks tests. Hypnotic Suggestion I recommended dropping altogether as it wasn't significantly different from the rest. I'll most likely use this as a house rule.

House ruling stuff is fine but I prefer not to have to as it can disappoint players who come to your games with an expectation based on the rules as published. But such is life.

This was poetic license to illustrate a point that rules heavy games can bog things down.

I do like the idea of expanding the social challenge beyond a single roll to be more blow by blow.

Instead of a single roll to seduce someone there is a series of rolls, roll to see if they will talk with you, roll to see if they will have a drink with you, roll to see how they respond to your hand on their leg, etc etc.

Play it out all the way and build the tension.

LOL Deliberately inflammatory is right!!

my answer is that role-play allows people to pretend to be something they're not. That would include being eloquent...

... well at least to some degree...

Do you need to make a pilfer roll to hijack a thread?

I'd like to see some of your examples. I'm always interested in seeing how other people play the game.

Dunno about 'tangled mess', it just makes each individual skill less useful but each one works to bulk up Looks tests in their own way.

Shifting the Rank bonus from All Knaves to Knaves with Presence is certainly not going to break anything but it will mean almost everyone will take Presence just to make sure they succeed as often as possible.

For myself, I'd leave Presence as is giving the +1 modifier which moves up to larger bonuses as the Knave increases in Rank.



*shrug*

_________________
co-author Fury of the Deep
co-author Friends or Foes
co-author Dragon Warriors Players Guide
co-author Cold Fury
co-author Cadaver Draconis
co-author Ordo Draconis 1 and 2.

By tangled mess I mean I'm still not sure which rules apply in any given situation. I had hoped that someone would be able to make it clearer to me (if anyone can please do!)

For example. If I want to shoot an arrow it is clear to me what set of rules to apply, there is only one option. If I have the Master Bowman skill then it is clear to me how my skill works within the framework of the existing shooting rule ( I get a bonus, not a separate rule set, the existing modifiers still apply).

Now as a knave I approach a walled town after nightfall to find the gate locked. The guard on duty says sorry can't let anyone in after dark.

Do I use the looks rule to talk my way in?
Do I use presence to gain favour with the guard so they open the gate?
Do I use Hypnotic suggestion to influence them subconsciously to open the gate?
Alternatively if I have my bodyguard with me can I intimidate them to do so?

The first 3 at least as written all seem to apply (the last one is open for interpretation) and all work slightly differently to achieve the same goal. Having a single framework to use (the looks rules) with additional benefits from skills gained (as in the master bowman example) is a much clearer to understand method.

At the moment it seems we have multiple ways to do the same thing so the player just picks which rule they use. Now people may be ok with that (and hey that's cool if you are) but for me it's confusing and it really moves away from the methodology of all other existing rules, ie a core rule with bonuses granted by skills.

So is it that all they all do apply in any situation and the player gets to picks the rule they use?
Or is there a definite distinction between all of these looks based rules/skills as to which one applies at certain times that I've failed to see?

I am just really struggling to see how it is meant to work so please help!!

Ah! Ok...will do...just need to get to my PC.

_________________
co-author Fury of the Deep
co-author Friends or Foes
co-author Dragon Warriors Players Guide
co-author Cold Fury
co-author Cadaver Draconis
co-author Ordo Draconis 1 and 2.