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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:07 am 
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Thinking about this, not sure if its happened in peoples kills, but since I'm 'working' on the sapper profession I figure this is something that'll come up over time. Could be tricking a knight to fall into water through an illusion spell, or pushing a boulder onto a heavily armoured enemy. Also the use of fire and incendiaries.

Have you implemented a system for this? What if someone lasso ed a knight with a rope and charges on? This is after all an rpg, so anything a player tries would be feasible.

I know the hunter has some traps construction skills. What if other players want to set up some kind of snare or trap? Any examples of how you'd run that?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:06 am 
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Kharille wrote:
Could be tricking a knight to fall into water through an illusion spell, or pushing a boulder onto a heavily armoured enemy. Also the use of fire and incendiaries.

Yes, illusions are great for concealing traps of all kinds. And a falling boulder would be a speed vs. evasion test causing whatever damage the GM deemed appropriate (possibly even instant death if the boulder was heavy enough - although I'd probably rule that the target is hurt and trapped but not killed because no-one likes to die on the roll of a single die). Fire and incendiaries are difficult - there are examples scattered through the rules (mostly for spells) for burning damage, but I'd be careful with this one. Fire is something that RPG rules never really get right so it depends on how realistic you want it to be vs. how deadly you want it to be to your players.

Kharille wrote:
What if someone lassoed a knight with a rope and charges on? This is, after all, an RPG, so anything a player tries would be feasible.

Absolutely agree - the players should be able to attempt any reasonable action. Not that it's possible to create rules in advance for these kinds of things, so I'd probably just run a lasso attack as a ranged grapple where the attacker can only use strength, not reflexes, assuming a successful hit. The lasso would need to be a ranged weapon with which the character was skilled, of course, and the ranged attack would be modified for movement, too.

Kharille wrote:
I know the hunter has some traps construction skills. What if other players want to set up some kind of snare or trap? Any examples of how you'd run that?

The moment you give a profession a special ability that only they can use, you limit the options of other professions to do that same thing, which is why I'm against having a vast catalogue of DW professions that blurs the difference between skills and abilities - you end up with a situation where no-one can do anything because that's the sole purview of a specific profession. The hunter is a perfect example of a bad profession for me because you either have to rule that anyone can do what a hunter can do (i.e., forage for food, prepare traps, etc.), in which case you diminish what's special about the hunter, or you rule that the other professions can't - in which case, any party without a hunter can suddenly no longer survive in the wild.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:20 am 
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Cobwebbed Dragon wrote:
Kharille wrote:
I know the hunter has some traps construction skills. What if other players want to set up some kind of snare or trap? Any examples of how you'd run that?

The moment you give a profession a special ability that only they can use, you limit the options of other professions to do that same thing, which is why I'm against having a vast catalogue of DW professions that blurs the difference between skills and abilities - you end up with a situation where no-one can do anything because that's the sole purview of a specific profession. The hunter is a perfect example of a bad profession for me because you either have to rule that anyone can do what a hunter can do (i.e., forage for food, prepare traps, etc.), in which case you diminish what's special about the hunter, or you rule that the other professions can't - in which case, any party without a hunter can suddenly no longer survive in the wild.


Nah, its just Hunters can automatically make those traps other folks need to roll to do it correctly. Same with Forage the Hunter will always find something...though it may take a while...another charachter needs to roll to be able to find anything.

If characters want to be specially trained in something they can just buy that skill either with XP or by swapping it out for another. Has worked pretty well in my games.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:24 am 
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Damian May wrote:
Nah, its just Hunters can automatically make those traps other folks need to roll to do it correctly. Same with Forage the Hunter will always find something...though it may take a while...another charachter needs to roll to be able to find anything.

If characters want to be specially trained in something they can just buy that skill either with XP or by swapping it out for another. Has worked pretty well in my games.

Yes, you can house-rule it to be better, but that's kind of my point.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:46 am 
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Cobwebbed Dragon wrote:
Damian May wrote:
Nah, its just Hunters can automatically make those traps other folks need to roll to do it correctly. Same with Forage the Hunter will always find something...though it may take a while...another charachter needs to roll to be able to find anything.

If characters want to be specially trained in something they can just buy that skill either with XP or by swapping it out for another. Has worked pretty well in my games.

Yes, you can house-rule it to be better, but that's kind of my point.


To be fair I use Cadaver Draconis pretty heavily so I guess my games are technically house ruled though I've never thought of them as so. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:35 pm 
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Just taking this a little further. Meteorological effects. From what I can tell, if its raining heavily, you'd best not use your bow or crossbow. Think you can get a shot off in the middle of rain? What if it was raining during Agincourt? Would the welsh still fire their bows? If I recall, there was a bit where the knights were knee deep in mud in that battle. Not much in the way of fatigue rules in dragwars, maybe a halved ATTACK/DEFENCE rule for being utterly exhausted crawling through mud?

We were talking about updating archery rules. What about shooting in the windswept highlands of Thuland? Rains all the bloody time up there. Guidelines for fog and poor visibility?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:48 pm 
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You can use a bow or crossbow if it's raining - provided it's not raining so hard you can't see. The issue with water and bows is that the damp tends to stretch the string, weakening the bow (which is why archers don't like using their bows in the wet). If a character uses their bow or crossbow in the wet, have them change the cord afterwards or their weapon will suffer a loss of range (and, possibly, a penalty to ABP).

Wind is another matter entirely. A strong wind can affect the range and direction of light missiles (such as arrows). It has less effect on crossbow quarrels (but will if strong enough). It would be simple enough for a GM to inflict a -1 penalty (or more) to archers if he deems the wind to be against them. You could also have wind direction provide a bonus to range for missile weapons...

The wind had a massive effect at the Battle of Towton (1461) where the arrows of one side (the Lancastrians) fell short, while their foes (the Yorkists) were able to fire with impunity.

As for fog or other conditions that affect visibility, use the rules in DW Book 1 for shooting in poor light (+3 or more to the 'to hit' roll).


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:28 pm 
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Never owned a bow so I don't know how quickly they deteriorate when wet.

Ah, theres another thought. If you shoot from say, 50m up, surely when it impacts plate there must be more power and penetration? Not sure whether there was documented history on the impact of a long bow firing downhill vs uphill.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:22 pm 
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Ah, theres another thought. If you shoot from say, 50m up, surely when it impacts plate there must be more power and penetration?

At point blank range, the force behind the arrow is generated by the bow. As range extends and the arrow starts to curve, part of the force is lost and gravity (a lesser force) starts to apply. A long bow, with a 'bodkin' arrow could penetrate pretty much any armour at point-blank range. However, knights and men-at-arms in full 15th Century plate had little to fear from a 'rain of arrows' except for the occasional lucky strike.
(This was demonstrated at Crécy where the French knights, charging uphill across muddy ground against prepared positions, had their horses shot out from under them. Many French casualties were the result of their horses falling and rolling on them. Many knights were trampled or suffocated in the mud.)

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Not sure whether there was documented history on the impact of a long bow firing downhill vs uphill.

Elevation is more likely to have an effect on range than a noticeable effect on armour penetration or damage. Simply put; shooting from a height advantage allows your arrow to travel further.

I'm not sure how much you'd want these kind of rules and considerations in a game like Dragon Warriors? For me, the appeal of the game is its simplicity. Missile fire is already affected by range, further negative effects (e.g. to penetration) might not be advisable?

Note that the Players' Guide allows use of a longbow - a d8,4 weapon. If you want to make bows more 'interesting' you could consider allowing different arrow types. A broadhead arrow might do more damage, but have a lower armour penetration. A bodkin would have a high penetration, but not increase damage. A crescent point arrowhead would have very low armour penetration, but be effective for cutting ropes... &c.

It's really up to you what kind of equipment and detail you want in your game.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:08 am 
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Hm... Yeah, keep it simple. I was toying with the idea of running existing dragwars with a d6. Wondering what results we can get if we did something like d6+8 with sword vs d6+5 with plate... would take work to playtest that.

Hm... now that I think of it, didn't book 5 elementalist have spells that could create a bog? Vague idea there might be some earth spell that alters terrain, need to look it up.

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