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 Post subject: New Creatures
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:43 pm 
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Over on the Discord Channel (https://discord.gg/qPVDSx6) we were discussing the Earth Elemental Spell 'Give up the Dead' and the part where it said that Zombie Animals have half their Stats and HP which didn't make sense with the Human equivalent being much stronger.

The current suggestion is and extra 1D6+10 HP and reduce Attack if over 10 by two points for every three (minimum 1) and Defence by the same if over 4. Magical Defence is reduced to 1, Evasion to 1 and Movement by half (minimum 6) but natural weapons gain a +1 ABR and Damage.

What animals would you say are likely to be raised as Zombies and what is your opinion of the stats?


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 Post subject: Re: New Creatures
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:27 pm 
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James Healey wrote:
Over on the Discord Channel (https://discord.gg/qPVDSx6) we were discussing the Earth Elemental Spell 'Give up the Dead' and the part where it said that Zombie Animals have half their Stats and HP which didn't make sense with the Human equivalent being much stronger.

The current suggestion is and extra 1D6+10 HP and reduce Attack if over 10 by two points for every three (minimum 1) and Defence by the same if over 4. Magical Defence is reduced to 1, Evasion to 1 and Movement by half (minimum 6) but natural weapons gain a +1 ABR and Damage.

What animals would you say are likely to be raised as Zombies and what is your opinion of the stats?



"Give up the dead" raises the animals as skeletons, not zombies. Though this may lead to a similar ruling on 'skeleton' stats for animals compared to humans.


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 Post subject: Re: New Creatures
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:46 pm 
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That is a good point, must have misread that part.

Perhaps we can extend the discussion to Zombies and Skeletons, :D

I was thinking similar stats for Skeletons as the real animal with the change in Armour Factor but with HP being one third of the usual total ie a Bear would have 2D6 + 6 HP instead of 2D6 + 20.


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 Post subject: Re: New Creatures
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:42 am 
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James Healey wrote:
That is a good point, must have misread that part.

Perhaps we can extend the discussion to Zombies and Skeletons, :D

I was thinking similar stats for Skeletons as the real animal with the change in Armour Factor but with HP being one third of the usual total ie a Bear would have 2D6 + 6 HP instead of 2D6 + 20.


Yeah, probably same stats as living animal for Att/Def, no STR bonus for natural damage, AF 0 except vs stabby weapons.
Mag Def/Evasion could be the standard skeleton 3/3, as physical size would make no odds here, and with no muscle it's the same sorcerous power moving the bones.
As you suggest, Health Points could be dice + 1/3 of normal, though you would need to make sure there aren't any animals with lots of dice HP but few '+' HP.

You'd need to calculate Rank Equivalent too, which is trickier as some of that may be from abilities that are lost in skeleton form.


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 Post subject: Re: New Creatures
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:10 am 
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I think Zombies will likely stay the same based on the increased HP but poor fighting abilities. Might be an idea to run each through the XP generator.


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 Post subject: Re: New Creatures
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:48 pm 
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Human (as per rulebook p245)
Attack: 11; Defence: 5; Magical Defence: 3; Evasion: 3; Health: 1d6+3

Human Skeleton (as per rulebook p98)
Attack: 11; Defence: 5; Magical Defence: 3; Evasion: 3; Health: 1d6+1

The only change from alive to skeleton seems to be -2 HP, so I'd suggest something similar for animal skeletons and leave other attributes (Attack, Defence, Evasion, etc.) unchanged. And, if you want to be more specific, the average Human HP is 6.5 and the average human skeleton HP is 4.5, a change of approximately 30%, so animal skeletons would have 70% of the HP of their living animal counterpart.

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 Post subject: Re: New Creatures
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:15 pm 
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Cobwebbed Dragon wrote:
Human (as per rulebook p245)
Attack: 11; Defence: 5; Magical Defence: 3; Evasion: 3; Health: 1d6+3

Human Skeleton (as per rulebook p98)
Attack: 11; Defence: 5; Magical Defence: 3; Evasion: 3; Health: 1d6+1

The only change from alive to skeleton seems to be -2 HP, so I'd suggest something similar for animal skeletons and leave other attributes (Attack, Defence, Evasion, etc.) unchanged. And, if you want to be more specific, the average Human HP is 6.5 and the average human skeleton HP is 4.5, a change of approximately 30%, so animal skeletons would have 70% of the HP of their living animal counterpart.


There isn't a direct equivalence though - an 'average' human is basically a domesticated creature with little or no combat ability. Monsters and wild animals are more akin to ranked characters.

Note that a 12th rank Knight raised as a skeleton still has attack 11, defence 5 and 1d6+1 HP.

The '1d6+1' is more likely chosen as the 'minimum' you can roll for HP in the format Dice+Value, rather than being 'Original Creature Dice+Value - 2"


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 Post subject: Re: New Creatures
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:47 pm 
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wimlach wrote:
Monsters and wild animals are more akin to ranked characters.

Note that a 12th rank Knight raised as a skeleton still has attack 11, defence 5 and 1d6+1 HP.

If the spell is just animating a bag of bones with no restoration of the creature's cognitive functions or instincts, then I guess it's not doing that for the human skeleton, either. The magic that animates the animal probably cares little for the shape or size of the bag of bones, in which case, either every skeleton has the same attributes. You could proportion attributes based on size for attributes that are dependent on size, but figuring that out would likely be arbitrary. Would a fox skeleton attack with the same skill as a human skeleton or a bear skeleton? How much of Defence, Evasion, and Health is based on the physical size of the creature? I'm not sure there's a way to even go about calculating that simply.

Instead, I'd focus on the narrative - it should be truly fearsome (and surprising) when a skeletal bear rises up from the ground and I'd reward any player that sought to make an offering to the Grey Folk in return for information on where such majestic animals may have perished. And were this spell ever used in combat, I'd suggest mortals would flee in terror before engaging a cohort of skeletal animals (or humans) - such a fearsome display of power would give most cause to check themselves! Let the narrative lead the effect, not the numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: New Creatures
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:05 pm 
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I can imagine that bag of bones containing an assortment of skeletal parts from various creatures, assembling into a mixed bunch of horrors.


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 Post subject: Re: New Creatures
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:29 pm 
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If animal zombies do become stronger, does that mean that the spell needs to be rebalanced, level wise?

Alternatively – do we look at a range of 'necromantic' spells with different effects at different levels?


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